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The Casino Craps Out
by Bruce Jackson
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The Buffalo gambling case and the judge’s decision
The small casino currently operated in downtown Buffalo by the Seneca Nation of Indians is an unlawful operation. The Senecas own the land and it benefits from and carries the special conditions regulating land that, in federal law, is “Indian country.” But it is not the narrowly defined and strictly regulated kind of Indian country on which gambling can take place. The Senecas can build whatever they like there—hotels, theaters, shops, hospitals, schools, anything at all. They can even build a gambling joint. But they cannot legally permit anyone to gamble in it.
So ruled US District Court Judge William M. Skretny, in a 122-page decision (127 pages with the front matter) rendered Tuesday afternoon in federal court in Buffalo. The decision is detailed, scholarly, at points elegantly written. Judge Skretny outlines the history and character of the treaties and laws governing Indian lands in general and Indian lands in Western New York in particular. He takes on the issues raised by the plaintiffs and argued by the defendants one by one and endorses or rejects each one.
The plaintiffs are a mixed group of organizations and individuals: Citizens Against Casino Gambling in Erie County, Network of Religious Communities, Preservation Coalition of Erie County, The Campaign for Buffalo—History, Architecture and Culture, Assemblyman Sam Hoyt, Erie County legislator Maria Whyte, Pastor Keith H. Scott Sr., and others. Erie County was one of the plaintiffs but pulled out when Chris Collins succeeded Joel Giambra as county executive early this year.
The case has been organized and directed by a group calling itself Citizens for Better Buffalo, the president of which is Buffalo attorney Diane Bennett. (I was vice president of the group from its organization in 2005 through July 2007). The lawsuit has been funded primarily by the Margaret L. Wendt Foundation. The plaintiffs were initially represented by a team headed by Buffalo attorney Joseph Finnerty, who was replaced by Albany lawyer Cornelius D. Murray.
The defendants are Philip N. Hogen, in his official capacity as chairman of the National Indian Gaming Commission, the National Indian Gaming Commission, the United States Department of the Interior, and Dirk Kempthorne, in his official capacity as the Secretary of the Interior. They were and continue to be represented by the US Department of Justice.
Judge Skretny’s ruling is a response to the plaintiff’s First Amended Complaint, filed on July 12, 2007, which amended the complaint that was originally filed on January 3, 2006. Based on the original Complaint, the judge remanded the questions to the National Indian Gambling Commission, telling it to subject the Seneca Nation’s gambling request to a serious measure of scrutiny in terms of the law. The NIGC made a few linguistic changes in its authorization to set up a casino in Buffalo, but apparently ignored all the judge’s requirements about making it in terms of the law.
So this time the judge held that the NIGC ruling was “vacated” because:
The NIGC approved the SNl’s gaming ordinance based on its conclusion that the Buffalo casino site was acquired as part of the settlement of a land claim. The NIGC deferred to the Secretary’s opinion in this regard. The NIGC and the Secretary failed to: consider the text of the SNSA, review related statutes and case law, interpret the meaning of the statutory language at issue, or offer reasoned explanations for their conclusions. For these reasons, the NIGC Chairman’s conclusion, which relies on the Secretary’s opinion, is arbitrary and capricious. Moreover, the Buffalo casino site was not acquired as part of the settlement of a land claim. Because the Indian Trade and Intercourse Act did not apply to the SNl’s land leases, there was no claim for the SNSA to settle. The NIGC’s determination to the contrary is not in accordance with the law. The Court vacates the NIGC’s approval of the Class III Gaming Ordinance for the Buffalo casino site as arbitrary and capricious, and contrary to law.
Terms of art, points of law
“Arbitrary and capricious” are what lawyers call a “term of art,” and is the term used when an agency (or lower court) makes a determination without reasonable grounds or adequate consideration of the circumstances, and that decision cannot withstand scrutiny by the reviewing court. Judge Skretny’s decision, in fact, reads as much like a brief for a higher court hearing an appeal as a ruling on a local case. After his detailed historical and legal analysis he takes on the plaintiffs’ and defendants’ arguments one by one, setting each in a broader legal context and examining them in this specific context.
He rejects, for example, the plaintiffs’ argument that the Seneca purchase isn’t Indian territory at all, that it is land owned by the Senecas, but not in a way that qualifies as Indian country. It is indeed Indian country, he says, and then details why. He rejects the defendants’ argument that the plaintiffs have no standing in federal court to sue on this issue. He also rejects the defendants’ claim that the court has not right to adjudicate this issue because it had to do with land title and the court cannot interfere with land in which the government has a title interest under the “Quiet Title Act.” No title is involved in this case, writes Judge Skretny; the case is entirely about whether the Seneca ownership of the land meets the requirements of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988 (IGRA).
What kind of land is that nine acres?
Most importantly he rules on whether or not the Seneca property in downtown Buffalo qualifies for an exclusion from IGRA’s prohibition against gambling on lands acquired after October 17, 1988. The exclusion depended on by the Seneca Nation of Indians, the US Department of the Interior, the National Indian Gaming Commission, the Secretary of the Interior, and New York Governor George Pataki was one that permitted gambling on land acquired after that cutoff date if the land had been acquired a part of a land settlement.
The defendants insisted that since a small portion of the money used to purchase the Buffalo property came out of funds from the Seneca Nation Settlement Act of 1990 (SNSA), the entire purchase was therefore the product of a land settlement and therefore land on which gambling could take place. The plaintiffs argued that SNSA wasn’t a land settlement; it was a lease adjustment act: The Senecas had been underpaid for years for lands they leased to non-Indians in Salamanca and the act redressed that wrong by giving them $35 million in compensation. The Senecas owned the Salamanca land before SNSA and they owned it after SNSA. No land changed hands as a result of the SNSA.
That position was argued most forcefully and publicly by former Congressman John LaFalce, who was co-sponsor of the bill. He argued it in planning meetings of Citizens for Better Buffalo (often over the opposition of then lead counsel Joseph Finnerty who was, for a time, anxious to base the case on his notion of what he called “environmental justice,” an idea no one in the group picked up and which eventually faded away). LaFalce reiterated his position most recently in an article posted June 16 on the Buffalo Report Web site (buffaloreport.com) and reprinted two weeks later in abbreviated form in the Buffalo News “Another Voice” column (both versions are available online).
LaFalce’s essay was argued in the News’ letters column by Barry E. Snyder Sr., chairman of the Seneca Gaming Corporation. The casino, argued Snyder, is a great economic engine for the community, and the Buffalo land was acquired “through the settlement of a land claim.” The name of the act empowering gambling in Buffalo, wrote Snyder, is “Seneca Nation Land Claims Settlement.”
NIGC chair Hogen had said the same thing in his determination. He tried to read SNSA as a settlement act because the title in the United States Code is “Seneca Nation (New York) Land Claims Settlement.” Hogen should, Judge Skretny wrote, have looked at the act itself because that title was provided by a printing clerk or editor; it is not the title of the act itself, which is “To provide for the renegotation of certain leases of the Seneca Nation, and for other purposes.” Congress, the judge points out, “gave the Act the short title ‘Seneca Nation Settlement Act of 1990. Congress did not include the term ‘claim,’ much less ‘land claim,’ in the SNSA’s long or short titles.”
So that title relied on by Snyder in his letter to the Buffalo News and by the National Indian Gaming Commission in its determination that the nine Buffalo acres were gambling eligible was a clerical error, nothing more. It had nothing to do with the legislation co-authored by John LaFalce and passed by Congress. The Buffalo land was Indian country but not gambling territory, which was why the judge said the Seneca Buffalo casino was outside the law.
Byron Brown’s response
A few hours after Judge Skretny published his decision on July 8, Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown issued this response:
The proposed Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino remains the largest private development project in this history of the city.
The ongoing $333 million project has already created over 100 construction jobs and it is expected that more than 1,000 people will be employed upon the project’s completion, including approximately 50% city residents earning an estimated average salary $35,000 per year.
The City of Buffalo is not a party of the federal lawsuit. According to initial legal analysis, the judicial review process will continue and the city remains committed to receiving 100% of the estimated $5-7 million a year in revenue as the host municipality to the casino.
This needs a gloss:
• It’s a really big construction project (he says nothing about other construction that won’t happen because of the money the casino will suck out of the community, nor of business that won’t relocate here because there would be a casino in the heart of town).
• It will create a lot of construction jobs (he never says or does anything that might in any way displease the trades unions, however harmful a particular project might be to the city in the long run).
• It will provide lots of jobs (he says nothing about the greater number of jobs that will be lost elsewhere in the city).
• The City has nothing to do with the lawsuit (don’t blame us for this debacle, the dream that may be dissolving in the light of day).
• And finally, a sentence that is at once irrelevant, a non sequitur and pouty: a legal analysis (by whom?) says the legal activity regarding the casino will continue (someone will probably appeal?) and (the conjunction doesn’t connect anything; it indicates a move to a totally different subject) his administration still wants that $5-7 million a year as its cut of the slot drop (no matter that that $5-7 million comes to City Hall at the cost of more than 10 times as much money taken out of the local economy), every single penny of it (County Hall better not get the idea that we’re going to share this because we’re not. It’s ours, all ours).
Since he took office Byron Brown has remained perfectly consistent about the casino project. His lines could have been taken from the Seneca gambling operation’s public mantra (and frequent Buffalo News “Another Voice” columns) about the casino’s unalloyed benefits to the city. It makes sense for the Seneca gambling bosses to make the same claims again and again and for them never to refer to the harm all studies have shown downtown casinos have done to local economies, especially casinos, like this one, that would pay no local or state taxes and be subject to no state employee benefit or environmental laws. The gambling bosses are in it to make money for themselves and the Seneca Nation; they have no responsibility to look out for us. (See for example, the glowing July 3 Buffalo News “Another Voice” essay by SNI President Maurice A. John Sr., “Seneca economy helps New York, no incentives needed.” It’s about all the money SNI is spending in Buffalo with nary a word about the fact that the money being spent is money that was first being taken out of Buffalo.)
The mayor of Buffalo should be looking out for us; that’s his job. And that’s what’s so strange about Byron Brown’s unwavering and uncritical position on the casino.
He is like a businessman who looks only at the plus side of the ledger and goes out to the stockholders and gives smiling, glowing reports. When stockholders ask what about the other side of the ledger he seems not to hear the question, or not to think it matters as long as the positive side is really, really positive. He is a walking, talking, speechifying, statement-issuing illustration of why the citizenry needs the courts.
The Seneca response
The SNI response to the lawsuit was more measured and rational than Byron Brown’s. President Maurice A. John Sr. had scheduled a press conference Tuesday afternoon but cancelled it after the decision was made public. Apparently he had expected the judge to rule in favor of SNI. He later issued a statement claiming the judge had validated SNI’s ownership of the land and the fact that the land was Indian country, but:
We were disappointed, however, that the Court concluded that the National Indian Gaming Commission did not properly approve our gaming ordinance.
The Court’s decision is lengthy and requires much closer analysis. We will be reviewing the decision carefully, as we want to be sure that the Court was aware of and considered all of the applicable federal law. We will be speaking further with the United States as we study our options and examine the decision in greater detail…
The Seneca Nation has faced many challenges in our 1000-year struggle of survival. This is but another. I am confident that we will be successful in achieving the destiny of the Seneca people.
What now?
At this point, the Seneca Nation of Indians can’t do anything but issue statements and lobby government officials. It wasn’t a party to the lawsuit so it can’t appeal the judge’s decision. They’ve retained famed Harvard Constitutional lawyer Lawrence Tribe, but it’s not yet clear what they intend to do with him. Will he advise them on how the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan or the Supreme Court might deal with Judge Skretny’s careful text? Will they ask him to initiate an entirely new lawsuit of their own, one designed to derail the current process?
The Justice Department, acting on behalf of the Department of the Interior and the Indian Gaming Regulatory Commission, is almost certain to appeal Judge Skretny’s ruling. Buffalo isn’t the only place where the Secretary of the Interior and IGRA rubber-stamped a request for a gambling ordinance. Indian gambling is very big money and very big money translates into very big campaign contributions. Jack Abramoff is gone but he’s got scores of clones still in business on K Street who learned from his mistakes. The Bush administration has been consistent in its agency response to big money and big business. (Note, for example, the recent secret attempt by the former timber lobbyist Bush put in charge of the US Forest Service to convert hundreds of thousands of public mountain forest land to residential subdivisions.)
How successful will an appeal be? Judge Skretny’s decision is very well researched and carefully grounded in a great deal of history and law, so sustaining it on appeal seems like a no-brainer. But if you read the majority opinions in Bush v. Gore (the 2000 Florida vote count case) and District of Columbia et al v. Heller (the 2008 Second Amendment handgun case), you know that, with this court, the fact that something might be a no-brainer is a non-starter.
But it usually takes a long time for a case to get to the Supreme Court. What about the short term? Will the Seneca gambling operation continue as it is now—lots of slots in the blue shed on Michigan Street and then a huge dazzling array of them in the gambling palace presently under construction?
The day Skretny’s decision came down, a spokesman for SNI said it was their intention to keep on running the gambling operation in downtown Buffalo and to keep on with their big hotel and casino construction project. They would, he said, take time to study the opinion in detail before coming to a final decision.
There is a distant possibility that they might fold their Buffalo hand and be content to reap profits from their Niagara Falls and Allegany operations. But hardly anyone expects them to do that. Why should they? Washington has been and continues to be friendly to gambling operations. Obama has said nothing likely to offend gambling interests so there’s no reason to expect him, if he is elected, to jump in and order his Justice Department to stand down on this one and his Department of the Interior to back off. On issues connected with big money, McCain is Bush Redux, so he’s not likely to get his hands dirty with this one either.
What power, exactly, does a federal district court judge have over an agency in the executive branch? Judge Skretny has declared NIGC’s Buffalo gambling ordinance “vacated,” but can he force NIGC to force the Seneca Nation of Indians to close shop? There is no question a federal judge can order a city to integrate its schools or fire department, but can he do that to a federal agency? What if the federal agency says, “You’re wrong, we don’t want to do what you want us to do, and we’re going to find another judge who will rule our way?”
Judge Skretny has delivered a learned, carefully reasoned opinion in which he determines that the gambling operation in Buffalo was improperly authorized and is therefore operating outside the law. It may be a while before anyone knows the practical consequences of that opinion.
Bruce Jackson is SUNY Distinguished Professor and Samuel L. Capen Professor of American Culture at UB. His most recent books are The Story Is True: The Art and Meaning of Telling Stories and Cummins Wide: Photographs from the Arkansas Penitentiary. He edits the political Web site BuffaloReport.com.
Reader Comments
donald
09 Jul 2008, 21:37
Is someone preparing to knock byron brown out of the box
(democrat/republican)---I thought Masiello was bad-and he was
horrible-politics use to be the arena of old men/women who already made
their fortunes and would try to pay society back (and protect their
fortunes-but generally-believe it or not helped all of us(private
property)). Come on folks-step up to the plate-------
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
10 Jul 2008, 06:22
I would like to aim my remarks as that obstructionist named Joel Rose.
Mr. Rose: Since when did you appoint yourself the people's spokesman? You
don't represent my views.
Did you, or your cohorts, have an alternative job-creation plan for Buffalo
before the Senecas got right to work? Do you have a plan today? If not,
you lost this argument by default. The Senecas won the moment they tore
down the abandoned grain mill and started building.
Your lawsuits are a waste of the courts' time and resources that could be
applied to more urgent cases. Please concede this and back off.
Senecas: Forget the anti0-casino lawsuits/rulings. It's your property.
Do as you like. Proceed as planned, to completion.
Jim Rozanski
10 Jul 2008, 10:16
Thanks Mr. Jackson (not Fisher) for clarifying the casino issue. Thanks to
CBB who perservered to stand up to a small group of political despots who
disregarded our laws on gambling.
Why should only a small politically connected group have the right to
operate a casino in New York State? Mr. Frank Parlato is going to place
slots in Niagara Falls to challenge that. He pays taxes; SNI doesn't.
This could all have been avoided if elected officials who wanted gambling
had the courage to take the issue to a referendum. Then the people could
vote whether or not they want gambling to be legal in New York State.
WNYMind
10 Jul 2008, 11:01
I've already written a lot about this and people know my position on the
Casino. The thing that gets me about this whole issue is that a small group
of people bankrolled by a nonprofit foundation are pushing their political
agenda on the community. When will the IRS step in and investigate the
Wendt Foundation for using its tax exempt funds to do political
campaigning. This is probably illegal, and Wendt should have its tax exempt
status revoked and pay back taxes for the use of funds for political
purposes.
I am sure the founders of the Wendt Foundation would role over in their
graves to know that a charity has been transformed into a Washington Lobby
by a few currupt trustees who also bilk the foundation out of close to
$400,000 a year in personal compensation. It is all a matter of public
record, look up Wendt's IRS 990 form yourself. This is how a small group of
wealthy elites hold over 1000 jobs in ballance that will pay Buffalo
residents an average of $35k per year. I guess Wendt's philosophy is to
keep people poor and dependent so they can be the white knight to the
community.
Joel Rose
10 Jul 2008, 11:08
Mr. Marshall:
Point 1. Name-calling. On this issue, yes, I am an obstructionist. If
you see a purse-snatcher in the street, would you try to stop him? Or
would you be concerned that doing so would label you an obstructionist? To
me, that's just a silly argument. A casino in Buffalo is a dumb idea, for
reasons that have been explained ad nauseum here and elsewhere. I'm trying
to stop a dumb idea. You'll get no apologies for that.
Point 2. People's spokesman. I never claimed to be any such thing. I'm
expressing my views. I have a First Amendment right to do so, as do we
all. I am also exercising my right to seek redress against illegal acts by
my government by bringing an action in Federal Court. So what is your
point here? It seems to be: "I don't agree with you, so shut up." If
that's the case, my answer is No.
Point 3. Job creation. No, I don't have a job creation plan. But I do
feel that the very first thing we should do is to refrain from DESTROYING
jobs, which is what the casino would do. Economists, at least those who
are not in the employ of the gambling industry (and even some who are), are
virtually unanimous on this point: a casino, outside of a city like Las
Vegas where the entire economy is based on casinos, will destroy two to
three jobs for every job it creates. So here's my modest idea: Let's not
make things any worse. Now, there are a lot of positive developments going
on in Buffalo, generated by people who are much more creative than I am, so
we don't need to act like we're desperate. But even if we were, a casino
would only make things worse.
Point 4. Wasting the court's time. Since the Judge's decision upheld our
main contention, wouldn't you have to conclude that it was the OTHER side
that wasted the court's time? But I would never take that position,
because I think that everyone, even a cynical Federal bureaucrat, is
entitled to his day in court. Don't you?
Point 5. Defying the court. The Seneca Nation is not subject to state or
local law, but it is subject to Federal law. Are you really saying you'd
like to see the Senecas defy a Federal judge? I grew up in Tennessee, and
I remember very well when President Eisenhower had to send tanks to keep
the peace in our county seat, the little town of Clinton, because of people
who (like you, apparently) felt that legal behavior was optional.
It saddens me that you have no better vision for your community than
fleecing our neighbors, stifling dissent, and defiance of the legal system.
But you're entitled to your opinion.
And so am I.
Joel Rose
Mike
10 Jul 2008, 11:34
Joel, can you provide the names of the economists and their work that
supports your claim that a casino will destroy jobs.
Thanks,
Mike
Chris
10 Jul 2008, 12:52
And I'd still like someone to tell me exactly where all the money that will
be "sucked out of the local economy" is going to go.
John Q Blogger
10 Jul 2008, 13:30
Thanks to the U.S. constitution we live in a country where any one person
or a million people can challenge corporate gambling in a U.S. court.
That's the beauty of our system of government. Some people just love to
bash others for using their rights as American citizens to stand up and
disagree. If it wasn't for a small group of people since the founding of
the United States of America who stood up and protested or filed law suits
in our courts this country would be like Saudi Arabia and people would be
getting beheaded in the public square for disagreeing or breaking some
arbitrary law from a monarch.
The point that should be addressed after reading this well written and
revealing Bruce Jackson article is why are we being blind to the many
issues pertaining to the harm that casino gambling has done and will do to
the people of Buffalo? What sort of citizen or elected official turns a
blind eye to the harm of casino gambling has done here? Why thousands of
dollars have been stolen as of recently from local churches to fuel the
coffers of corporae government. There is no talk of reparations to refund
the money stolen to aid the poor and needy. No all we hear again and again
is the same slanted and one sided non critical opinions that are
disengenuous to the truth of the matter.
Casino gambling is the Trojan horse that was rushed into the confines of
the City of Buffalo. Like Greeks that slowly emerge from a thing of wonder
and promise the looting of this community and displacement of it's greater
wealth is taking place in our community. We have lots of hysterical and
hasty opinions that only see the Trojan horse and not the Greeks taking
down our people, our tax paying business, our government, our constitution,
and the right to say wait a minute this thing is wrong. It wasn't by
accident that we have labor unions or civil rights laws in the USA. It was
through people standing against other harmful Trojan horses. Once slavery
was considered in the U.S. a way to create jobs and increse wealth but the
harm that it did to the human condition became too much for good men and
women to stomach any longer.
How many more people would be alive today if good people had come forward
and stood up and opposition to governments and corporations that brush off
the opinions and harmful outcomes to it's citizens? Why some of you talk
like you have the right to run over sound opinions with literal tanks. You
want us to all be blind and just go along with thousands of dollars being
looted from churches. What is wrong with you? You are being un-American.
You talk like tyrants that impose viewpoints without considering the dire
consequences. Yes let't not be blind when people are being harmed to
benefit a corporation or a government. The way to Nazi death camps and
Osama think is to go along and not challenge and not to voice opposition to
things that are wrong. The casino is a wrongful and harmful corporate
entity like a Trojan horse.
There are times in this country when people need to use the power of their
citizenship to be as brave and noble. They are no different than those who
rushed into the 911 Twinn Towers or those who have served their country in
warfare or those who marched in Selma, Alabama for civil rights or those
who were locked up because of opposition to monarcy, slavery, violation of
human and civil rights, for a better America. This is what true heroes and
Americans do. They challenge things when they are wrongful. They don't walk
by people who are on the ground. They are not arbitrary or capricious
towards a government established for all our people. It is far easier to do
nothing. It is far easier to look the other way when wrongs are massive
perpetrated. It is far easier to be a follower of bad leadership and to
pretend that things are wrong when they are wrong as a three wooden
nickel.
To concentrate only on the plus side of the casino eqquation and not
challenge the dire negatives is the group think that got us into Iraq for
weapons of mass destruction and into Vietnam for the domino theory. The
casino is an all glitz and glamour facade while the internal workings are
rotten to the core like those who call themselves elected representatives
of the people, but instead are elected official of the gambling interests.
Don't tell me to shut up and help you pull this casino Trojan horse. Thank
God for the intelligent people in Bufffalo who can see a project that is a
lemon. Thank those who stood up throughout this nations history and spit in
the face of injustice and degradation of human beings.
The court of the United States has spoken. Will the gambling corporation be
placed above the law or will it have to obey our countries laws? We as
Buffalonians and Americans are heading down a path far more destructive
than the loss of jobs when we abandon the U.S. constitution and value the
corporate decision over that of a Federal judge.
Wake up this is America.
WNYMind
10 Jul 2008, 15:58
Rose and Blogger must be smoking dope. Thanks for asking Rose to put up or
shut up Mike.
But, let's not let the Wendt Foundation off the hook. What is their
political campaign doing for Buffalo and is it legal for a 501c3 to use its
tax exempt funds for political purposes?
I looked up Wendt's tax return. Robert Kresse, Thomas Lunt and Janet Day
are each paid over $150,000 per year to work 2 hours a week as trustees for
the foundation. What a rip off!!!! What a crime!!!!!
Rose should spend his time cleaning up the Wendt Foundation, but then
again, they are paying his legal fees, so he won't bit the hand that feeds
him no matter how dirty it is.
Joel Rose
10 Jul 2008, 17:55
Mike asked for the names of the economists and their work that supports my
claim that a casino will destroy jobs.
God question, Mike, and I'm happy to oblige.
Earl Grinols, Distinguished Professor of Economics at Baylor University,
"Gambling in America: Costs and Benefits"
Robert Goodman,Professor of Environmental Design, Hampshire College (also
an economist), "The Luck Business"
John Kindt, Professor of Business Administration, University of Illinois at
Urbana-Champaign (also an economist and an attorney), numerous articles in
law journals, linked from http://ncalg.org The citations are in various
places on that site, so just enter "Kindt" in their search engine.
Bill Thompson, professor of Public Adminstration, University of Nevada at
Las Vegas (also an economist, I believe). By way of disclosure, Bill & I
knew each other in graduate school, but we have not kept in touch. He has
done work both for governments and for the gambling industry, but has a
reputation as a straight-shooter. I don't know what he's written, but call
him at 702-895-4828; he'll tell you what he thinks.
I mentioned Grinols first because his book has become the Bible in this
area. He's written some other stuff on the topic as well -- check out
amazon.
Goodman's book is very good, but somewhat dated, and he's not active in
this area of research currently.
Kindt is adamant on the subject of job loss.
Grinols and Kindt both testified before the National Gambling Impact Study
Commission created by Congress to consider the costs and benefits of
legalized gambling.
If you want more, let me know. The ncalg site has a lot of good
references.
In response to WNYMind:
I did not consider Mike's request to be a suggestion to put up or shut up,
but rather a polite and reasonable request for information. I have no idea
what he was thinking, but the words he used were respectful. Otherwise I
wouldn't have taken the trouble to respond at length.
As for the Wendt foundation, you should be aware that the prohibition
against political activity on the part of tax-exempt organizations is just
that -- a prohibition against involvement in electoral politics. It does
not translate into a prohibition against involvement in controversy, nor
does it preclude the funding of issue-related litigation. You could, if
you wished, form your own pro-casino organization and seek tax-exempt
status for it.
It's all part of our First Amendment freedoms. I'm using mine, and I
support your rigght to use yours.
But you really ought to do your homework before you go around suggesting
that the Wendt Foundation Trustees are guilty of anything. These are
dedicated, hard-working, community-minded folks who have helped our
community in countless ways.
Joel Rose
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
10 Jul 2008, 21:13
Dear Mr. Rose:
Here are my replies to your missive...
Part 1...
a: "I am an obstructionist."
So, you dare to prevent an entity that is looking to create jobs and
benefits in the area from doing just that, hmm? Think of this: People on
welfare, then they get jobs at the casino/hotel. They can thus take better
care of themselves and their households, as opposed to continually getting
handouts from we the people. Which is better, sir?
b: "If you see a purse-snatcher in the street, would you try to stop him?
Or would you be concerned that doing so would label you an obstructionist?
To me, that's just a silly argument."
I know; you're silly for making this apples-vs-oranges comparison.
c: "I'm trying to stop a dumb idea."
Why don't you let the people of the community make that decision, rather
than you and your super-rich benefactors making that choice for us? The
dumber idea is to put yourself and your ideals ahead of the rest of us.
Part 2...
a: "I'm expressing my views. I have a First Amendment right to do so, as
do we all."
I don't begrudge that. However, you come off as so darn high-and-mighty
that you feel the need to protect us from our own actions... from our own
desires... from making our own choices, regardless how distasteful they
seem to you.
b: "So what is your point here?"
Follow along with me to Part 3.
Part 3...
a: "No, I don't have a job creation plan."
BZZZZZZZTTTT! You then lose this argument. You have nothing to offer but
hot air; the Senecas are building and creating something that could provide
jobs to people. They won from the moment they started tearing the old
grain mill down and started building the casino/hotel complex. It's a win
by default in their case.
b: "So here's my modest idea: Let's not make things any worse."
How about a more positive, move-on-offense, idea: Let's build and create
things that could offer more people gainful employment and benefits? Your
position, Mr. Rose, takes a defensive tone, and that's not going to hold up
well for you after a while.
Part 4...
a: "Since the Judge's decision upheld our main contention, wouldn't you
have to conclude that it was the OTHER side that wasted the court's time?"
No, it's still your side wasting the courts' time with such a silly
lawsuit. If you don't like the Seneca casino, you don't have to partake of
their offerings. However, you DON'T get the right to impose that worldview
on the rest of us.
b: "But I would never take that position, because I think that everyone,
even a cynical Federal bureaucrat, is entitled to his day in court. Don't
you?"
I'm of the belief that some claims should be tossed out at the courthouse
gate. The lawsuits against tobacco companies. Against fast-food
purveyors. Against homeowners by criminal intruders who get injured in the
act of criminal activity. Your lawsuits against the Senecas and their
casino.
Part 5...
"The Seneca Nation is not subject to state or local law, but it is subject
to Federal law. Are you really saying you'd like to see the Senecas defy a
Federal judge?"
It's THEIR land. They're a SOVEREIGN nation. Therefore, let them do with
their land as they like, even if it means building a casino. Don't like
what they have to offer? You don't have to participate; that's your own
individual right. Let others decide for themselves on this. There you
go.
Epilogue...
"It saddens me that you have no better vision for your community than
fleecing our neighbors, stifling dissent, and defiance of the legal system.
But you're entitled to your opinion."
As if you have any room to talk, Mr. Rose. You're seeking to fleece our
neighbors by denying jobs for some of them, and by denying others the
opportunity to have a more convenient place to enjoy themselves(gambling or
otherwise). You seek to stifle, although not dissent, the ability of
others around you to decide if they want to have a more convenient place of
gambling/other like entertainment. And, you seek to use the legal system
to put the petty whims of you and your elitist cohorts above the freedoms
of the rest of us regular folks. You have a right to your opinion.
However, this is not Stalinist/Leninist Russia, nor Fidelist Cuba, nor
Mugabean Zimbabwe, nor Chavez' Venezuela, nor any other such oppressive
nation. This is the USA. That means freedom for EVERYONE, not just you.
Become one with that.
"And so am I."
I know I am.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
10 Jul 2008, 21:19
Fellow bloggers, here's a question for you:
Joel Rose...
a: a serf looking for a tyrant to lord over him,
or
b: a megalomaniac seeking to lord over the rest of us everyday schlepps?
What do you say, friends...?
John Q Blogger
10 Jul 2008, 21:59
Lloyd you talk only casino spin. Apples and oranges are not the fruit that
is being picked from the people of Buffalo.
What kind of idiot settles for a deal which is basically what Manhattan
Island was bought for? The vast majority of wealth that is being made by
your beloved fleecing machine is being shipped far out of Buffalo.
You have reverted to the persuasive slur tactics on Mr. Rose to beat down
those who have a right to object to a wrongful project in the City
of Buffalo. The Artvoice article spells it out perfectly that only the
positives are being shouted up while the far more negatives are being
dismissed. The casino is a deceit upon this community. This is not Atlantic
City or Las Vagas we are living in. It's primarily a university and medical
town. You are clutching at promises of false development that robs the
community.
My defiant answer to you Lloyd is NUTS.
WNYMind
10 Jul 2008, 23:49
The Margaret L. Wendt Foundation lists its purpose and activities as:
emphasis on education, the arts, and social services; support also for
churches and religious organizations, health associations, public interest
organizations, and youth agencies.
The Wendt Foundation requires all grant applicants to submit the following:
1) statement of problem project will address 2) copy of IRS Determination
Letter 3) listing of board of directors, trustees, officers and other key
people and their affiliations 4) detailed description of project and amount
of funding requested Applying organizations should include the last 3
years' audited financial statements with above information.
If your anti-casino group is legitimate you should be able to post items
1-4 that you submitted with your application to the Wendt Foundation. If
the trustee’s were doing their job, they can produce this information as
well. Otherwise, Lunt, Kresse and Day aren’t even earning the $150,000
each takes from the Foundation for their 2 hours of work a week.
Rose, you need to produce the documentation or return the money your group
took from the Foundation in violation of its published grant application
rules. Also, if you cannot document that the rules were followed, Lunt,
Kresse, and Day should resign and return the $150,000 each takes from the
Foundation.
Tell your friends to put up or step down. Crime doesn’t pay and you are
about to be exposed.
Joel Rose
11 Jul 2008, 00:25
WNYMind wrote a lot of accusations without bothering to check his facts:
I'll explain a little of the history of this lawsuit.
(1) CACGEC retained Buffalo attorney Richard Lippes to initiate a lawsuit.
We were the plaintiff and the client. Additional plaintiffs subsequently
signed on.
(2) Some other people, including the trustees of the Wendt Foundation, got
interested in this cause and decided to direct some money toward it.
(3) Wendt did not direct any money whatsoever to CACGEC. Rather, a second
group was formed -- Citizens for a Better Buffalo -- to administer these
funds. CBB hired its own attorneys and agreed, after some negotiation, to
take over payments to our attorney, who then became CBB's attorney. Until
this arrangement was worked out, CACGEC continued to pay its attorney.
(4) From that point on, CBB's team of attorneys collectively determined
legal strategy, with very little input from CACGEC. CACGEC remains a
plaintiff, but CBB is the client.
(5) Whatever the application process between CBB and Wendt may have been,
CACGEC was not a party to it, and I have no knowledge of it.
However, I would assume that whatever rules govern the Wendt Foundation,
they are determined by the Trustees. I would further assume that they
could be changed, or waived, or adhered to, as the Trustees choose. I do
not know this for a fact, but it stands to reason, does it not? The
constant requirement would be that the Foundation adhere to all the laws
governing non-profits. As these Trustees are pillars of the community, the
kinds of people I would never ordinarily meet, I would be amazed if they
ever did anything that failed to comply with all applicable laws.
But go investigate. Knock yourself out. Just get your facts straight
about who has and who has not received funding.
"Crime doesn't pay ..." you say. Are you accusing me, or someone else, of
committing a crime? If so, please have the courage and integrity to use
your actual name.
Joel Rose
WNYMind
11 Jul 2008, 00:41
Thanks for the third party explaination of how Wendt flyes by the seat of
its pants to pursure pet projects of the three trustees with no
accountability to anyone.
Pillars of the community, what a joke.
Margaret L. Wendt would roll over in her grave to see how her philanthropic
gift was being used by a few self appointed moral crusaders and their bogus
CBB group (which also was composed of Bruce Jackson the author of this
piece). It is just a star chamber with an agenda bilking the poor out of
the Wendt gift that was supposed to go to them.
It's called a rip off no matter how you try to frame it, and you should be
ashamed of yourself for lowering your integrity to get a few legal fees and
waste so much court time on your efforts to kill jobs in Buffalo.
My name if WNYmind, but I also go by "V".
Joel Rose
11 Jul 2008, 01:07
WNYMind,
For someone who apparently does not know the people involved, you seem to
have reached a lot of judgmental conclusions. You even seem to know what
deceased people think.
If you actually read what I've written, you'd understand that the last
thing I'd want to do is kill jobs. Casinos -- like the one you want -- are
the PROVEN job killers.
You didn't have the courage to asnswer my question about whether you are
accusing someone of committing a crime, and you still don't have the
courage to use your real name. As far as I'm concerned, you're pathetic.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your drivel.
Joel Rose
Luis Clay
11 Jul 2008, 01:25
In his comment above dated, Lloyd A Marshall has said, "Senecas: Forget the
anti0-casino lawsuits/rulings. It's your property. Do as you like. Proceed
as planned, to completion."
Perhaps Mr Marshall should try putting up a 40 foot windmill on his
property, that is if he owns one, and see what his neighbors have to say
about. Or he could make some money by starting a chemical plant or an
industrial gin-distillery.
No doubt there will be lots of laws and regulations about how Mr Marshall
may use his land. Mr Marshall being a law-abiding citizen tells all his
neighbors to get lost.
That's cool. Why don't we all do that. That would make good ol' U S of A a
really, really civilized country to live in.
Luis Clay
11 Jul 2008, 01:51
In his note above dated today, the dim-witted WNYmind says, "When will the
IRS step in and investigate the Wendt Foundation for using its tax exempt
funds to do political campaigning."
Perhaps the smartest thing to do if one wanted an answer to this question
would be to write to the IRS. Maybe if WNYmind does that he might be able
to illuminate the issue by sharing the response with us?
Then he goes on to say, "This is probably illegal, and Wendt should have
its tax exempt status revoked and pay back taxes for the use of funds for
political purposes."
Probably illegal? Perhaps it might be a good idea to find out whether the
Wendt Foundation HAS acted illegally before spouting off with "should have
status revoked" and "pay back taxes" blah, blah, blah, etc.
Then WNYmind goes on to suggest that the trustees of the Wendt Foundation
are "currupt" (sic) and bilking the foundation. I've known one of the
trustees of the Foundation, Bob Kresse, personally for about three years
and I believe he is one of the most upstanding and supportive members of
this community. Perhaps if WNYmind has any facts to support his offensive
remarks he could share them with the community so that we won't all think
he or she is a bit bonkers?
I'm not aware of WNYmind's position on the casino and I dare say that after
reading this note I am not in the least bit interested in learning what it
is. If, however, WNYmind's view was that casinos in poor inner cities are
sound civic policy and sustainable economic developments then that would be
very, very wrong for a number of obvious reasons.
Maybe WNYmind is Mr Chris Collins or Mr Byron Brown? That would be very
amusing wouldn't it?
Luis Clay
11 Jul 2008, 02:04
In his note above dated 10 July, Lloyd A Marshall, Jr, has written:
QUOTE
Fellow bloggers, here's a question for you:
Joel Rose...
a: a serf looking for a tyrant to lord over him,or
b: a megalomaniac seeking to lord over the rest of us everyday schlepps?
What do you say, friends...?
UNQUOTE
What a nasty piece of work Floyd seems to be. I'm quite certain that I
would never want to have any rude friends like him. Just because Joel Rose
stands up for his beliefs and for his community (and for the law!) Floyd
gives us two choices to describe Joel Rose. Nice way to go in the City of
Good Neighbors, Floyd.
I can just see the corporate investor types reading Artvoice to learn
whether Buffalo might be a good place to invest in (it is) and reading
Floyd's brilliant commentary. What a great advertisement for our
community.
I dare say Floyd thinks that inner city casinos are sound civic policy and
sustainable economic development. That would be very wrong as anybody would
know who bothers to read study after study on the subject.
Luis Clay
11 Jul 2008, 02:21
WNYmind above notes, "The Margaret L. Wendt Foundation lists its purpose
and activities as: emphasis on education, the arts, and social services;
support also for churches and religious organizations, health associations,
public interest organizations, and youth agencies."
Perhaps WNYmind should consider that the lawsuit against the Seneca Casino
is ENTIRELY CONSISTENT with the purpose of the Wendt Foundation. Casinos
are excellent operations for laundering money and relieving dim suckers of
their hard-earned cash. Putting a casino in a poor section of a poor city
is a sure-fire way to increase strife, misery, embezzlement and, of course,
crime. When the Senecas take the money but they don't pay for the resulting
problems, the local service agencies have to pick up the slack. Those
agencies have been supported by the Wendt Foundation for donkeys years.
It is also true that the arts in Buffalo will surely suffer if the casino
money machine ka-ching ka-ching is allowed to secure big names without
paying any taxes.
So bravo to Kresse, Lundt and Day for pursuing the mission of the Wendt.
Somebody, please tell me that the IRS-expert, illuminated WNYmind is not
Mayor Byron Brown or Chris Collins. I'd love to shake WNYmind by the hand
and look in their eyes when they tell me that casinos are the best chance
that Buffalo has for sustainable economic development.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
11 Jul 2008, 06:35
John Q... Quit smoking the crack.
As for your accusing me of using "slur tactics," did I besmirch Mr. Rose's
character even once in that missive? Please give examples.
Bottom line: Everyone has a right to choose how they will enjoy themselves,
and how they will use their own money. Those who don't like the casino...
just don't take part in it. End of story.
Dave D.
11 Jul 2008, 09:34
Regarding Bruce Jackson's article in Artvoice, I find it very self serving
to further inhance his position on the casino issue. Anyone who finds it
as the "informative, well written bible on the issue" had better put down
their coffee cup. What I find amazing about the groups that are against
the casino is that they have no suggestions on how is this poor city going
to ever be able to pull itself out of this self created pathetic state it
is in. Let's face it, most if not all of Buffalo's future is controlled by
a few power mongers from the business and political areana who will do
anything to stop development of any kind that may impact their money tree.
Meanwhile, those that do wish to gamble (I do not) are heading to Fort Erie
slots, Niagara Falls, Canada, resort town look and feel (at the blessing
and support of the Ontario government)and all the other casinos in the
area. Should the Buffalo project succeed when all the fighting is over,
isn't a little better than nothing?
I am tired of hearing about the poor and what about them. Well, they can
start by getting a job. Will they make $20 or more an hour, no! Will they
make minimum at perhaps Micky D's or a retail store, maybe. Yes there are
people who have fallen on hard times by the decrease in industrial type
well paying jobs in our area, but there are equal or more people who
complain and talk as if they are entitled to a well spaying job. Sorry,
but you have to earn it. This gets to the point of the bashing of Byron
Browns statement about the jobs that the casino would create in Buffalo at
an average salary of $35,000. Where else do the groups against the casino
propose to offer this kind of opportunity?
WNYMind
11 Jul 2008, 10:51
What has come out in these blogs and Buffalo News reporting is that the CBB
is a front organization for three people, Robert Kresee, Thomas Lunt, and
Janet Day. Kresse, Lunt and Day are the trustees of the Wendt Foundation.
In essence they are the Wendt Foundation. This Foundation represents a $160
million investment account they draw from for their personal pet projects.
Nothing more. There are no identifiable rules for the Foundation and the
three with the keys to the Wendt account spend the money for their own
political folley and to buy friends in the city.
THE CBB has not members, by-laws, or substance. It is just the front
Kresse, Lunt, and Day hide behind as they mess with the local economy and
undermine the people of Buffalo. They have used the Wendt money to hire a
not-so-slick lawyer to do their muscle work. This thug and Bruce Jackson
spew propaganda to the public about the CBB, which is merely Kresse, Lunt
and Day’s fake organization they hide behind.
So, in the end, three irresponsible people have stirred up a lot of
trouble. Thanks to Kresse, Lunt and Day, the Wendt Foundation has been
discredited as a financial toy to harass people trying to fix Buffalo. It
is a classic example of people blackmailing a community. Kresse, Lunt and
Day are corrupting a charitable organization for their own political ends.
Is this a Crime, maybe? Is it unethical, absolutely. If they have any
integrity they will end the campaign to run the Seneca out of Buffalo. If
they have a little more integrity, they will step down as trustees of Wendt
and replace the trustee system with a governing board that represents the
interests of the poor in Buffalo and has diverse representation (income,
race, etc….). That board could adopt some rules for spending the
Foundation’s money that comport with addressing real social welfare needs
in the community.
If Kresse, Lunt and Day stay on the course they have set, they will not
only lose the fight with the Seneca, they will lost the Wendt Foundation
for the community. Look at the math. Wendt has $160 million in its bank
account. The Seneca can outspend them in PR and legal action 10 to 1. I’d
suggest that the Seneca start a media blitz and focus on how these three
individuals have bankrolled all of this activity and pulled one of the most
obscene hoaxes in the history of Buffalo. Maybe throw $6 or $7 million in a
media campaign to expose Kresse, Lunt and Day’s operation. Then the
Seneca can throw another $6 or $7 million into a court battle. Bye Bye
Wendt Foundation, or more appropriately, flick.
Dave D.
11 Jul 2008, 11:08
Another thought for the Seneca's that I heard on the radio the other day is
that if they do lose out on the ability to have a casino on the 9 acres
that at least has been ruled Indian land, they could construct one huge gas
station and smoke shop with maybe a brothel thrown in for good measure.
Now what would the nay sayers have to say?
John Q Blogger
11 Jul 2008, 12:42
Lloyd get a life.
You are unreasonable and mince words.
Read this article in Artvoice please. Or read in todays Buffalo News about
how in Beijing the opposition to shoddy projects over there are being
arrested by the police.
Yes the casino is a harmful project. This is what many citizens of Buffalo
who are not part of the business and political power establishment have
been saying for years. Opponents of casino gambling were right about the
crimes that this project would spawn. How many churches were looted of the
money intended for the poor and the needy? The amounts were in the hundreds
of thousands. These crimes to fuel casino gambling were not shop lifting
crimes. Churches and people have been significantly harmed and no sort of
restitution of the stolen funds were given back to the robbed churches by
the City of Buffalo, the State of New York, Erie County, or the Seneca
Gambling Corporation. Don't tell me how wonderful it is to develope this
city by harming people. You don't get it. Casino gambling development is
just like how Tobacco Corporations used to pass around the lie that
cigarette smoking was healthy for ones health. Then the Tobacco
Corporations went in front of Congress and said they didn't think smoking
was harmful to peoples health, but they had read the scientific studies
that proved that smoking causes cancer. Eventually the government took the
Tobacco Companies to court and today cigarette packs don't tell the
consumer that cigarettes are good for ones health. We know they cause
cancer. We know that casino gambling in just as harmful to our community.
It is a cancer on WNY.
Casino Gambling causes:
Suicides
Family Break Ups (The Corporatation Culture loves gambling and
indebtedness)
Thefts from Employers
Thefts from Religious Institutions
Thefts from Family
Thefts from Neighbors
Thefts from Government
Loss of Buffalo restaurant and entertainment business.
(The non Seneca businesses that pay State taxes
are at an unfair disadvantage. Go down to the southern tier and ask owners
of gas stations off the reservation what tax free gas stations did to their
businesses. The Bijou Cafe and the Adams Mark Hotel are shilling for the
casino gambling corporation. The fact of the matter is that in Niagara
Falls, N.Y. the casino gambling has not spurred development outside the
casino. The gamblers stay in the casino and spend alltheir money in the
casino. The non native businesses cannot compete and are going under. The
same thing is going to repeat itself if this casino nonsense goes forward
in Buffalo.)
Substituting community values of saving and study with foolish risk taking
Therefore these above listed casino gambling problems are not some
frivilous and odd ball complaints of someone that feels powerless or
someone that is powerful and wants to trample on the backs of others
rights. The casino gambling problems are what compelled people like Joel
Rose and the Wendt Foundation to go to the U.S. courts to get justice. They
sought justice not just for their rightful citizen opinions but for the
greater good of this community that has been denied and smoked and mirrored
by a gambling corporations p.r. campaign. The process bringing this casino
into Buffalo has been most convoluted. The law was subverted. We need to
ask ourselves at this juncture why gambling is illegal in New York State?
Why did those who built this state feel that casino gambling shouldn't be
allowed in New York State? I wouldn't be far off the target by saying that
every casino gambling problem that I listed above is the reason that casino
gambling wasn't something that the majority of people wanted in our state.
Why do we sneak around our laws and why do we settle for people basically
looting our local economy for nickels and dimes on the dollar? This makes
absolutely no sense.
Joel Rose and the people opposed to casino gambling in WNY and New York
State first are entitled as citizens of this country to work in the
American Legislative and Judicial process to address wrongs that they
perceive.
Second there is absolutele justification to call the questions to valid
wrongs caused to communities from casino gambling. These wrongs are
basically being imposed on us by a foreign country.
Third the argument of look at the jobs and wealth created by casino
gambling without looking at the harms casino gambling causes is in itself
faulty and lacking integrity.
Fourth: A lot of people around the world get tired of hearing about the
poor, the starving, the destitute, the homeless, the sick but greater
people step up and try to do something to be more caring and understanding
and helpful to those in chronic conditions. To make it worse on the poor
and to impoverish people in WNY for governments and corportations is
wrongful and against the teachings of the greatest minds. Other ways exist
to create jobs that are not toxic to the social fabric and the environment
of this community. To work and study and make things is a better way to
foster, just wide spread development in ones community instead of doing
harm to a community and than turning a blind side to that harm. Now I
understand how so many people were wronged by the WWII Nazi's. They thought
it was better to create jobs and move their economy ahead while not looking
at the harm being done behind barbed wire camps just outside of towm. It is
better to face truth than to bury it and hide it. That is what the cheering
section for casino gambling in Buffalo is doing. You are conviently looking
away from a wrongful thing and telling lies to themselves. It is so easy to
do this and go to the bank and pretend that others are not being harmed. It
is easy to walk by a man on the street in distress. It is easy to hate and
forget others. It is easy to do the bidding of a harmful corporation when
they provide you with a job or hand you checks for political campaigns or
give your family member or political allie a job. There are plenty of
people to go around who think nothing of polluting the air and water or
defrauding the poor and the elderly. They got theirs and that's all the
justification they need for selfishness and wrong doing. They have
benefitted by it. Yet in world that finds it easy to trample over the
rights and humanity of others will in the end find themselves or their
families paying the price for selfishness. That is what is at the center
of this matter. Gambling is an activity based on promoting greed and
turning off humanity towards others. Casino gambling won't solve the
problems in America and WNY. Casino gambling will foster only more
problems. It is deviding this community like nothing we have ever seen
before. Casino gambling is a placebo to solving economic woes. It is like
telling people that have cancer to drink snake oil. That is what Masillo,
Pataki, Collins, Schumer, and Brown are pitching. They are pitching false
hope that diminishes many lives and that in itself is worth standing up and
fighting. To fight casino gambling in Buffalo is to fight slavery and
segregation. It is a fight against an unfair system. The odds are stacked
in favor of the few who own the house. This is not how we build a better
Buffalo. This is a Trojan horse with a wooden mane. Tell us that there
isn't a trap door under that horse and you can tell us that there are no
significant problems associated with casino gambling.
The definition of the word slur from Webster's dictionary:
An insulting or disparaging remark or innuendo.
Let's not get into the semantics of words but instead pay more attention to
the issue at hand. The discourse of the discussion of the legality of
casinos has been placed in the hands of a Federal judge. The judge found
that U.S. and New York State laws were broken thoughtlessly and without due
process. Bruce Jackson article points out the core problem. The truth to
the harm in casino gambling is being avoided. The casino gambling stone
walling is bold faced.
Those who are in favor of casino gambling are reduced to avoiding the harm
it causes and stoop to emotional invective to persuade by shouting. Clear
thinking is justified and required. We did not get that from elected
officals in WNY New York. We got the mob of Lloyd Jr's and the political
machine group think on an issue that deserves fair discussion and
understanding and judgement.
Luis Clay
11 Jul 2008, 15:11
Well I had described WNYmind, whoever or what that is, as dim-witted but in
the last update from that source there is is this, "these three individuals
have bankrolled all of this activity and pulled one of the most obscene
hoaxes in the history of Buffalo."
The three individuals that WNYmind refers to are the trustees of the Wendt
Foundation.
The only word to describe this rant is delusional. DelusionalMind may be a
better handle for this writer.
Why then bother to respond to this drivel? Well, it doesn't hurt to
remember that Jackson's article above is about the ruling by Judge Skretny
that the Seneca Casino is illegal under federal law and that WNYmind does a
splendidly political turn by veering the entire debate to a subject of
absolutely no consequence to this subject.
Again, please will somebody assure us all that WNYmind is not a deluded
politician from Western New York? Thank you so much.
WNYMind
11 Jul 2008, 17:47
Just a quick thought on JQ Blogger. All of the things he says casino
gambling will cause:
Suicides
Family Break Ups (The Corporatation Culture loves gambling and
indebtedness)
Thefts from Employers
Thefts from Religious Institutions
Thefts from Family
Thefts from Neighbors
Thefts from Government
are actually caused by POVERTY. Buffalo has a lot of poverty, so 1000
$35,000 a year jobs will help relieve those problems.
To L. Clay I would just like to remind him that the court case was bogus to
begin with and will be overturned. It is also not enforceable. The BIA will
rule that the process for licensing was correct. And, the city and state
can issue a license too. So the three trustees of the Wendt Foundation and
their flunkies will just waste a lot of tax exempt money to undermine the
poor in Buffalo. Par for the course.
Notice how silent Mr. Rose has been. He is cowering under his rock because
he has been exposed by WNYMind :)
John Q Blogger
11 Jul 2008, 22:14
Therefore WNY Mind let's make it worse for the poor and get them addicted
further into gambling and encouage them to spend and go into debt for false
promises.
These are the negatives of a poverty caused by casino gambling.
Don't try to gloss over that more people lose money than win money when
they gamble in a casino. Don't bury the truth of how thousands of dollars
was stolen as of recent from local churches to gamble at casinos. Don't try
to look the other way while Buffalo tax paying business goes under to
benefit the non tax paying casinos. Again new business has not been created
when casino gambling was brought to Atlantic City and Niagara Falls. So
where in your crystal ball did you get the idea that Buffalo a non tourist
destination was going to create other business around the casino after
destroying bars and restaurants downtown? The casino created jobs will not
offset the loss of taxes and loss of jobs at tax paying businesses in
downtown Buffalo. You are robbing Peter to pay Paul. You are robbing
churches to fuel government and corporate spending. You are exporting most
of the money being spent in the Buffalo casino out of towm. The negatives
must be revealed and not down graded because this is a vast deceit on the
community.
You bait Mr. Rose in a bully fashion because he used his rights as a
citizen to fight casino gambling. What has been exposed is a pathetic WNY
Mind. You talk of a fellow American as though he was a enemy of the people.
In my opinion your tone shows a lack of understanding of the American
system that fosters freedom of dissent as well as freedom to agree. If you
were a true American you would show more respect for others who are brave
enough to voice their opinions and beliefs in a civilized and adult manner.
You do not hold a patent on the what others want to think.
You are angry because a man led a group opposed to casino gambling based on
his moral principles and beliefs. You are a petty tyrant whem you act the
role of an arbitrary and capricous, internet bully. This invalidates you
from being taken seriously but it makes good entertainment. All in all you
aren't impressing anybody with your cyber swagger. We thank you for your
opinion as you pontificate every reason in the world why we should ignore
the harm casino gambling brings to a community. The judge thought
different.
WNYMind
11 Jul 2008, 22:42
Three points JQ Blogger
1. There is already gambling in WNY. Go to OTB, NF (US and Canadian side),
your local church, the Fairgrounds, etc... etc.... The people who gamble in
WNY will just spend their time and money in Buffalo instead of other places
where fewer gambling revenues come back to Buffalo. The casino won't turn
everyone in Buffalo into gamblers, just capture more of the current
gambling revenue in the city and county.
2. Let's see Kresse, Lunt, and Day come out and speak to the issue they
raised in public instead of hide behind a lawyer. Let them take the bully
pulpet and get the legislature to put it on the ballot as a referendum. Let
the 85% of the people who support the casino in WNY vote on it. Rose is
just a hired gun for the Wendt Three who bilk the poor to fight the casino
and the will of the people in WNY. That's why they slink in the shaddows
and sue in court in the name of CBB (their fake organization with no
popular support) instead of letting the people decide with a vote or simply
with their gambling dollars.
3. Let's use this as a vehicle for reforming how the Wendt Foundation
operates. How about some accountability to the public, how about some
representation of the community in their decision-making, how about a board
to replace the trustees. It is a shame that the second largest foundation
in Buffalo is being run into the ground by three misguided, detached, self
appointed, dilusional Don Quixotes. While they fight their windmills, the
city dies from neglect.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
11 Jul 2008, 23:19
John Q... Let's get one thing straight. It all comes down to people
exercising free choice, whether or not they wish to go to a casino and
gamble. Nobody is putting a knife to people's throats, or a gun to their
heads, forcing them to gamble.
If you, or Joel Rose, or other elitist snobs, don't like what the Seneca
casino has to offer, then you have the perfect right to not participate.
That's the beauty of America: You can choose yes or no; you don't get to
force yourself on others.
As for your "get a life" suggestion... that applies more so to you, Joel
Rose, and the other elitist snobs trying to force their tinhorn dictatorial
whims upon the rest of us. Got it, John Q? Get a life. You reading out
there, Little Joel? Get a life. You in the Wendt Foundation getting a
hold of this missive? Get a life. Live your own life; you don't get to
live ours.
Luis... I don't see any Floyd here. You might want to get your eyes
checked.
As for your "Joel Rose stands up for... his community," you can rest
assured that not all in Joel's community share his warped vision.
Also, on "(Lloyd) gives us two choices to describe Joel Rose," I say they
are fair and accurate observations of how Rose and his elitist cohorts
operate.
And for fellow blogger, WNYMind:
"Notice how silent Mr. Rose has been. He is cowering under his rock because
he has been exposed by WNYMind."
That makes two of us who own Mr. Rose's sorry butt.
Mr. White
12 Jul 2008, 12:46
I finally understand why Citizens for a Better Buffalo suddenly decided to
go after the Seneca Casino. The ugly head of white racism has poped up
again in Buffalo. Gambling is not new to the Buffalo area. There is the
Lotto, OTB, the slot machine parlor in Hamburg, the casino's in Niagara
Falls, the race track in Batavia and Fort Erie,and all the bingo parlors,
football pools, and fantasy leagues run through catholic organizations. But
when a minority group (in this case Native Americans) gets into the casino
business, then the white establishment in Buffalo is up in arms.
The CBB movement is really just good old fashioned racism. Now we learn
from WNYMind that the Wendt Foundation is the source of most of the funding
for this anti-Native American casino movement. I looked up what the Wendt
foundation is and does, and it is hard to believe that a foundation of its
size has NO minority trustees. Just three white people sitting in a room
making all the decisions. The Wendt foundation seems to be a little tight
when it comes to funding minority led organizations too. They give a lot of
money to art museums in the deleware district, city honors (I think the
principal is the son of one of the trustees) and a lot of other tee toddler
groups. They also give crumbs to select white do gooder organizations that
claim to help people in poverty. Probably just more nepotism for friends
and family of the trustees.
But when a business owned and run by Native Americans comes to Buffalo and
promises to give jobs to all the residents of the city, including black
people, then the Wendt foundation calls foul. They don't really care about
gambling or they'd go after Lotto, OTB and the Catholic Church. No, they
just want to use their money to attack minorities. This is institutional
racism at its worst.
Let's call it what it is, WHITE RACISM. This is worst than the guy who
burned the cross on the interracial couples lawn. The trustees of the Wendt
Foundation are guilty of a hate crime. They are "typical white people" to
quite a famous politician and soon to be presidents of the USA.
John Q Blogger
12 Jul 2008, 15:19
Here you go again mud slinging and making inaccurate statements about CBB.
They are against all forms of gambling. There is nothing racist or classist
about them. You will next call CBB storm troopers or maybe the KKK. Your
despiration to twist and slur paints you very sadly and pathetically. This
is a shabbyness from those who would stoop so low and turn their backs on
thousands being looted from WNY churches. It's all about expediency for the
crazed mob and loss of moral character.
Spewing out the same old casino gambling slogans for casino gambling does
not rectify the problems that over and over again the negative facts you
white wash over and try to ignore.
Crawl on your bellies and whiggle all you want but the Seneca Gambling
Corporation no longer has the right to use land in Buffalo for casino
gambling. Casino gambling in Buffalo has been vacated by a Federal judge.
The decision was fair and based on law. The decisions that led to the
constructing of this casino were based on arbitrary and capricious and
faulty decisions by agencies in the U.S. Government. The Seneca Gambling
Corporation thought that money that was stolen from the poor and the needy
could buy a judicial decision favorable to their ongoing operation. They
rolled the dice and got snake eyes and lots of whiners who don't like the
laws of our country being fairly interpreted by men and women who are
better versed in the law than the blog mob. The gist of what was written in
Bruce Jackson's article was about why the lawsuit was initiated. There was
lack of critical thinking and only greed on the part of the majority of
Buffalo elected officials. There were opposition protests and valid
arguments that should have stopped wiser men from bringing this Trojan
horse into our city. It is the harmful impact on Buffalo caused by casino
gambling that is the topic that mob bloggers want to evade and muddle.
Sling away. We will keep resisting you self centered disinformation. The
negatives reasons that casino gambling are opposed in Buffalo will be
talked about or adjudicated through the judicial system.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
12 Jul 2008, 19:14
Hey, John Q. A man's home/property is his castle.
"The Seneca Gambling Corporation no longer has the right to use land in
Buffalo for casino gambling."
So says someone on the outside looking in. It's their land. They bought
it. Tghey were here 1st. What else can you say. Leave them alone.
Do you have an alternative job-creating plan? Let's hear it/see it. If
not, shut up.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
12 Jul 2008, 20:43
One more response to John Q.:
"Spewing out the same old casino gambling slogans for casino gambling does
not rectify the problems that over and over again the negative facts you
white wash over and try to ignore."
And spewing the same anti-casino slogans doesn't negate the fact that this
whole matter comes down to two central things: personal choice, and
job-creation.
Don't like casinos and their wares? Just don't go. People can make their
OWN choices, and we DO NOT need you/your ilk deciding what's best for us.
A full-fledged casino/hotel will give jobs to people who would otherwise be
getting handouts from us taxpayers. Do you have another job-creation plan?
If yes, tell us. If not, crawl back under your rock and stay there.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
12 Jul 2008, 20:49
And one more for Don John Q:
"Clear thinking is justified and required."
I believe I've been doing just that, and so have others like WNYMind and
Dave D. I'm not so sure about you, Joel Rose, and the other snobs.
jamie moses
12 Jul 2008, 21:34
I just returned from a ten day RV camping trip through Yosemite National
Park, Lake Tahoe and the Pacific coast. We had a 6 a.m. return flight out
of Reno, so we spent our last day in the Peppermill Tuscany Tower, the
largest casino hotel in Reno, Nevada. The casino was largely empty, except
for a few people who sat at slot machines like zombies, just pushing
buttons and staring at the whirly lights. The locals we talked to had
nothing but bad things to say about the casinos, and every local who grew
up in Reno said they never gamble in any casinos because they know better.
One guy said he worked for a company who made slot machines and said they
were literally designed to appeal to a five-year-old mind, lots of gaudy
bright lights, whirring, whizzing and bells ringing. They are also all
programmed to make certain you lose, a lot. Moreover, since the national
economic downturn casinos are failing everywhere and many large casinos
operators are filing for bankruptcy and/or are having difficulty getting
loans. Casino revenues in Nevada have tumbled downward for five of the past
six months and Moody's warned Las Vegas strip casino operators that they
are on the verge of negative credit ratings. Worse, because Nevada's budget
is so dependent on gambling, the state is now faced with dangerous budget
shortfalls. Several casino construction projects have stalled because of
lack of funding or credit to finance casino construction projects.
By contrast, the tourism industry interested in natural and historic
attractions was just jumping. Yosemite National Park, and Tahoe were
thriving, the entire Pacific coast from Santa Cruz to the William Randolph
Hearst Castle in San Simeon was bustling, in spite of forest fires along
Big Sur.
The bottom line is that colleges, universities, medical and technology
industries, waterfront expansion and historical tourism and healthy park
systems are all real development that create wealth and solid job growth.
Gambling is for suckers and governments too lazy to do the right thing for
their constituents and instead pick their pockets through an invisible tax
by promoting gambling.
p.s.
For those commenting on this article, if you want to advance a meaningful
discussion I would caution that arguing with Lloyd Marshal is a waste of
time, and Mr. White, for whatever reason, brings up racism in every topic
of discussion.
John Q Blogger
12 Jul 2008, 22:01
The Congressional legislation that former John LaFalce passed specifically
said that casino gambling would only be allowed on Native Amercian
reservations and adoining areas next to the reservations that were
established before the Congressional Law was passed. So in other words the
law applied only to the standing reservations before the law was passed by
our government. The Buffalo Native American terrotory was purchased at a
date and time not allowed by U.S. Federal legislation and law to establish
casino gambling.
To make it simpler. All native American reservations and their territory
next to them is allowed to have casino gambling as long as it was before
the Congressional bill had been passed and signed by the President. All new
established native American territories such as the one in downtown Buffalo
are in violation of a settlement law passed by our Congress and our
government. None of the U.S. Congressman who passed the Native American
settlement claim bill ever intended that it be so convoluted and
misinterpreted delibretly to contradict U.S. law and the New York State
Constitution. The Bush Administration regularly has subverted the laws of
this country and it started in Iraq all the way to native American casinos
being established far, far, away from their reservation territory. The
Seneca Gambling Corporation in downtown Buffalo is surrounded by U.S. and
New York State terrotory. Native casino gambling corporations do not
legally have the law on their side in this matter. They just recently
bought this land and Buffalo is not in Salamanca.
Clear thinking would be concerned about protecting U.S. established laws
and concerned thinking would be concerned about the ripping off HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS DONATED TO WNY CHURCHES TO AID THE POOR AND NEEDY.
This is the rotton fruit and slimy baggage you turn your back on.
Fight poverty by advocating luck as a way to get ahead. Go to the casino
and all our troubles will melt away. The jobs that are created are coming
from the misery you are promoting and the jobs that will be lost in the
American entertainment businesses in Buffalo. You are promoting robbing
churches and gambling over savings, hard work, and industry. I suppose
using Lloyd logic we should allow people to do whatever they want to do in
our community. Legalize heroin or crack. What's wrong with that? I bet
heroin is doing less damage to Buffalo than your casino gambling. Are you a
snob against legalizing heroin use? Lloyd you are a closet snob against
lawful crack useage. Two wrongs do not make a right. Casino gambling and
heroin and crack use all steal hundreds of thousands from WNY churches and
people. Think of the jobs that would be created if we addicted more people
to crack and heroin like you are doing with casino gambling.
avwrobel
12 Jul 2008, 22:14
Thanks Jamie for the great post, and for the alternative voice in general.
I just don't get it with casino supporters. Its a proven negative for a
community. Our assets are varied and impressive, and with ongoing
development along with the new energy in NF NY (finally) will prove to be
huge winners in the long run. A tax-free Indian operation in the heart of
downtown Buffalo will be have disastrous effects on our community for
years. Just as the Seneca casino is having its negative effects on the
surrounding buinesses there. They both should be shut down.
WNYMind
12 Jul 2008, 23:34
JQ Blogger, I enjoy your posts, but you are not correct. The 1842 Treaty
with the Seneca is instrumental in this decision. It began the process of
addressing what is documented as one of the biggest injustices against
Native Americans in US history. In essence, all of the land in the Buffalo
Creek reservation was illegally taken from the Seneca (i.e. most of what is
the City of Buffalo today). The Seneca had a legal claim to that land, but
were only given the right to buy it back and incorporate it into their
territory in 1990. The money from the 1990 settlement with the Seneca was
used to purchase the casino site, and the Seneca were granted an exception
to the gaming rules and the gaming license under that rationale. In
essence, the Judge ignored the 1842 treaty in his decision and if his
decision stands, the US government will be in violation of the 1842 treaty
and ALL of the original Buffalo Creek reservation property will revert back
to the Seneca. So, all of the City of Buffalo will suddenly be part of the
Seneca territory very soon if this ill informed decision stands. The Seneca
are now in a win-win situation.
Study the decision and study all of the applicable federal law related to
the Buffalo Creek reservation and you will see that this is far from lost
for the Seneca.
This issue is not linked to the Bush administration's abuse of the
constitution. As you know, I am no fan of the Iraq war etc...., but the
original decision to give the Seneca their gaming license was in fact the
right decision. It was made in the context of ALL the treaties with the
Seneca. But, if the US wants to give the Seneca back all their land, that
works fine. Then they put casinos all over town. They can start by building
one next to the Wendt Foundation offices on Main Street and they can put
another next to Rose's house.
Also, what's all this about money given to local churches to help the poor.
First, this is a drip in the bucket. I hope you don't think some chump
changed given to churches can replace a living wage job or comprehensive
public assistance for the poor. Second, M. White is correct on one point,
the Churches run the biggest gambling operations in WNY. They stand to lose
bingo, sports betting, and a number of other raffle revenue. All of which
are classified by NY State law as gambling. So, have the trustees at Wendt
go after the Catholic Church. Let's see what the Wendt trustees and their
lawyer are really made of. Let them sue the Pope. I can supply his address
in Rome if needed. The Pope is behind the biggest gambling organization in
town, go sue the Pope.
Luis Clay
13 Jul 2008, 05:52
Hello WNYMind,
I think I'm beginning to understand the mentality of WNYMind (with a
capital M.)
This discussion is not about the legality of gambling in Buffalo at all.
This is all about payback for past injustices (racist and otherwise) done
to the Senecas. That's why Joel Rose and WNYMind couldn't get along. Joel
Rose is concerned exercising his rights as an American citizen and WNYMind
is concerned about payback for something that was started in 1842.
That's why you say that the CBB lawsuit is bogus and that Skretny's
decision is irrelevant and that the Feds probably won't follow up the
decision anyway. (Your probably correct about this last point because
they're mostly a bunch of greedy, lazy twits down there in DC.)
I had thought that the handle WNYMind meant "I'm one who minds (or cares)
about Western New York" but on closer inspection I see that the handle has
a capital "M" and so it may be a convenient code for "WNY Mohican indian"
or "WNY MoBettaMoney" indian or something like that.
It would be fascinating to know what WNYMind stands for, would it not? I do
hope we get to find out!
Anyway, back to the subject at hand. Have you, WNYMind, read Bruce Fisher's
history on the Senecas printed at Buffalo Report? I would very much like to
know whether you think it is a proper history or not.
You can find it if you google this text... "bruce fisher seneca"
As I said I would be very interested to get your point of view on Mr
Fisher's summary. He writes as if he has done some homework and he knows
what he's talking about.
I'd also like to meet you one day so I can shake your hand. I'd like you to
know that I don't live under rocks. Doing that is simply not sustainable.
(I don't think Joel Rose does either. I see him about all the time and he
uses his real name like a real person when he blogs on Artvoice and he
invites everybody to his meeting all the time.) He may have a "sorry butt"
(I don't really know what that means but I think it quite unlikely that
either you or Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr. own it, either jointly or severally.)
I've put my phone number below if you would like to get in touch.
Lots of fun blogging, don't you think? Especially if you use it to learn
something new or meet interesting people. I'd like to encourage my kids to
do so that they can learn how to express themselves and so that they can
learn to understand issues that are important to them.
See you soon I hope.
Luis Clay
+1 (716) 841 2616
Luis Clay
13 Jul 2008, 06:07
My thanks go to Jamie Moses for the fabulous service done to the community
by Artvoice and also for the very useful reminder, above after his visit to
Reno NV, of how unsustainable casinos are as an economic development tool.
Great for laundering money (especially so close to a border!) but hopeless
for economic development. There are many reasons why this is so...
1) casinos are all the same, the glitz makes your eyes sore after 5 minutes
(or is it the 2nd-hand smoke)
2) the market is saturated, there are casinos everywhere (esp: Reno NV,
Gary IN, Detroit MI and Atlantic City, NJ all know to be tourist hotspots
noted for their especially culturally interesting and illiminating
casinos)
3) casinos alongside gambling in general offer one product: false hope. (At
least bingo is sociable, limited and you can see where the money is going.
I do think that it would be Buffalo would be better place for its citizens,
and visitors actually, if the Catholic Church could get off bingo by
selling vegetables.)
You'd have to be a complete twit or a self-serving politician like (Mssrs
Bush, Pataki, Collins, Brown or John) to think that casinos are good value
for the community.
Luis Clay
13 Jul 2008, 06:20
Dear Mr. Lloyd A Marshall, Jr.,
I'm writing to apologise for getting your name wrong the other day.
It's not that my eyes need to be checked, it's that I have a very bad short
term memory. When I can find my glasses, my eyes work perfectly well.
I think I may be one of the snobs that you referred to in your post above
about clear thinking. I have been a bit of a snob when I was younger and I
have to say I very much regret that.
In any event, I wanted you to know that I have no interest in taking away
your personal choices. If you want to go to the casino so much why don't
you go to Niagara Falls or to Salamanca? Or Reno NV or Gary IN or Atlantic
City NJ or Ocean City MD, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum?
If you do, please would you let us know how the economic development front
is working out down there and whether you think it is sustainable?
Many thanks from your online-scribble-partner,
Luis Clay
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
13 Jul 2008, 15:32
Jamie Moses says:
"For those commenting on this article, if you want to advance a meaningful
discussion I would caution that arguing with Lloyd Marshal is a waste of
time."
Right, Jamie, 'cause you'll get owned, just like Joel Rose.
WNYMind
13 Jul 2008, 15:52
The treaty of 1842 is actually the law and principle governing the entire
dispute with the Seneca. It is an interesting history lesson about how the
US government first ripped off the indians and then committed to a process
for righting the wrongs done to them. It is also widely cited as one of the
biggest land grabs by the US government historically, followed by an
admission that it was wrong and should be fixed.
Before the 1830's all of Buffalo was the Buffalo Creek reservation, then
the government illegally gave a land speculator a license to sell the land
for profit. The Seneca disputed this action and won in court. It took
almost 150 years, but they finally got the right to buy the land back (land
taken from them illegally) and reincorporate it as Buffalo Creek
reservation land. At that time, they also got a settlement from the US
government. The settlement money was used to buy the casino land, that's
why it's called the Buffalo Creek casino. So, the license was issues under
the terms of the 1842 treaty and the 1990 settlement. Pure and simple.
The judge recently ignored that treaty, and ruled incorrectly. It will be
overturned or the original 1842 issue becomes a hot issue of contention
again. If the right to buy back the land of the Buffalo Creek reservation
is no longer there (a right was established for over 150 years) then then
the Seneca claim to all the land is in play again.
So, it is a matter of treaty and law in this country.
I have seen Fisher's silly blurb on the other blog. It is purely junk. If
he understood basics about US law and treaty agreements with Native
Americans he wouldn't write such silly things. It makes him seem
intolerant. Rose is also telling half truths. If he really respected the
law he would acknowledge the treaty issues and go away with his tail
between his legs. The irony of the whole thing is that he has opened to
door to have his personal residences designated as being on indian land and
subject to Seneca laws too. Poetic justice if you ask me.
To make a long story short, no I am not a Seneca, the Mayor, Brian Davis,
or any of the others I have been accused of being. I am just one of the
thousands out there who respect my neighbors and all the laws of the US
(not just the few selected to press my agenda). Who I am doesn't really
matter, what I represent does, which is fairness, honesty, and democratic
process and dialogue.
My challenge is still out there to the Wendt trustees. Stop hiding behind
lawyers and put this issue in the hands of the people. Use your unjustified
power to get a referendum on the ballot in WNY to let the people vote on
the casino. Let them vote it up or down. Then there will be no dispute of
the outcome. Let the majority rule.
The Wendt trustees will not do this any more than they will reform how
their 'foundation' is governed. They like to have power over people (really
rob people of their rightful power). Instead, they play games with the law
and bilk the poor out of the foundation's spoils from playing the stock
market. All at taxpayer expense, all using money that is tax exempt. That
is the sikness that is really behind this snowjob the trustees are behind.
WNYMind
14 Jul 2008, 11:59
Is the Wendt Foundation bankrupt? It appears so. According to the Buffalo
News Wendt has poured most of the $2 million used to wage war against the
Seneca casino into the pot. That means Wendt has cashed in $2 million of
the foundation's stock for a lobbying effort against the casino.
This has been done during the same time that Wendt's portfoli has been
losing value on Wall Street. If the Wendt trustees were watching Wall
Street instead of obsessing over a casino, they might not have allowed
their investment portfolio to crumble.
Are the Wendt trustees out of control? Should they continue to sell the
foundation's stock low to spend endlessly on their anti-casino lobbying
efforts in the courts? Are the trustees (Robert Kresse, Tomas Lunt, and
Janet Day) mismanaging the foundations funds? Is Wendt the next institution
to go under in this economy? Is Wendt's gamble worth the risk to the poor
in Buffalo?
We know the answers to all those questions. This is the adelphia scandle
all over again.
Every dollar Wendt spends on the casino is hundreds of dollars taken away
from the poor and the organizations the Wendt foundation was set up to
support. Wendt is dipping into its portfolio to wage war on the Seneca, and
that means the funds are no longer there to generate returns on investment
that end up back in the community doing good.
IT IS TIME FOR ROBERT KRESSE, THOMAS LUNT AND JANET DAY TO BE REMOVED AS
TRUSTEES OF WENDT. THEY SHOULD BE SUED IN CIVIL COURT FOR MISMANAGEMENT OF
THE WENDT FOUNDATION'S PORTFOLIO AND REQUIRED TO REEMBURSE EVERY PENNY
SPENT ON THE LOBBYING EFFORT AGAINST THE SENECA.
If this pattern of abuse is allowed to continue, there will be no Wendt
foundation left, and you can thank the trustees for creating this mess.
WNYMind
14 Jul 2008, 12:28
YES!!!!! NOW THE WENDT TRUSTEES HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE PEOPLE. THIS IS JUST
THE BEGINNING. TIME FOR KRESSE, LUNT AND DAY TO GET KICKED OFF THEIR HIGH
HORSE!!!!
SEE THE LINKS:
http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=59288&provider=top
http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/blogs/archives/6709#comment-233295
MR ROSE, THAT'S THE LAST $2 MILLION YOU GET TO LOBBY. SAY GOODBYE TO THE
GRAVYTRAIN!!!!!
Rocco Russo
14 Jul 2008, 14:12
I read through most, though not all, of the comments. I am sickened to see
so many people (WNYmind, Lloyd) attempt to push their "freedoms" on
everyone else with no regard to the big picture. I actually agree with the
statement that every individual has the choice to go to the casino and
gamble or not. But the facts are this: Casinos do not benefit a
community. The research is there.
I'm also disgusted in the use of terms "social welfare", "the poor", etc.
Three words: Get. A. Job. And don't throw this 1000 $35k jobs at me. At
what cost? Don't tell me you can't drive anywhere around town and not see
a single help wanted sign. But let's take that $3.5 million in yearly pay.
What are the chances that the casino nets $3.5M or more? Where is that
profit coming from? Right from our own citizens. Sure, some of it's
already going to the other gambling avenues. Is it realistic to shut down
OTB, or the Lotto, etc.? Accepting past mistakes as the status quo is not
the answer to our current issues.
I applaud Mr. Rose and the others here who have the sensibility to use
reason, logic, and common sense to openly discuss the major issue at hand
and oppose something that is against the law.
Rocco Russo
14 Jul 2008, 16:23
Edit: $35M. The point remains the same. Casinos don't open to lose
money. They'll easily make more than that. Where do those profits come
from? The community is pumping their disposable income (yes, at their free
will) into a tax-exempt entity that has no accountabilty for the "social
welfare" you speak of. The same social welfare that will be short changed,
but you praise for helping the poor and disadvantaged. So you want the
best of both worlds. The "freedom" for us all to choose to spend our
dollars at a casino, but no responsibility on the part of said casino to
help with the social ills that casinos create. I hate welfare, SSI, and
any other handout more than anyone. But if you have all the answers,
explain to me what your plan is to deal with the increase is the studied
and documented social problems that come along with a casino. I'll be
damned if you think I'm going to foot the bill for some b.s. government
program to help the "needy". It's bad enough in this state and they'll
sure as hell be driving more of us educated residents out of the area if
they think we'll pick up the tab while the Seneca's get rich. But I
suppose you can't take the time to actually research the state of Indian
affairs. Take a look at what Indian gaming has done for the Seminoles and
south Florida. Is that what you want?
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
14 Jul 2008, 17:17
Hey, Rocco:
"I applaud Mr. Rose and the others here who have the sensibility to use
reason, logic, and common sense to openly discuss the major issue at hand
and oppose something that is against the law."
And yet... it's SOVEREIGN land that the Indians are building on. It was
their land before; they have bought it back. It's their property, and
therefore it's THEIR call as to whether they will build a casino on their
own land or not. Not yours; not Joel Rose's; not Judge Skreteny's; not the
Wendt Foundation's.
Tell me: Do you like it that the Canadians built the Fallsview and Niagara
casinos just at the water's edge so we here in the NY side can see it?
Canada is a sovereign nation; remember that. Same for the Senecas and the
land they're building on... SOVEREIGN.
"The community is pumping their disposable income (yes, at their free will)
into a tax-exempt entity that has no accountabilty for the "social welfare"
you speak of, etc."
And that's where it comes down to... FREE WILL. Those who willingly gamble
themselves into oblivion have nobody to blame but themselves, and should
not be able to look to "we the people" for their help. Did anyone put a
gun to their heads, or a knife to their throats, demanding that they gamble
themselves silly? You know the answer to that one.
Personally, I've been to the Casino Niagara, and to Foxwoods in
Connecticut. No more than $30 each time. When that was done, so was I.
If people can't take responsibility for their own behaviors, they should
just suffer in silence.
That's the beauty of it: Free choice. The marketplace. This is what
drives business and commerce, and what should drive the building of the
casino/hotel in Downtown Buffalo. Not the nosy, do-gooder, elitist
megalomaniacs and their "we know what's best for you" machinations.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
14 Jul 2008, 17:37
You know Joel Rose's website; you know the rest.
Dave
15 Jul 2008, 05:31
Thank You Lloyd..... S O V E R E I G N.
Dave
15 Jul 2008, 05:32
Dear Rocco and everyone like him: I'm sorry that someone is holding a gun
to everyone's head and making them gamble.
Rocco Russo
15 Jul 2008, 08:56
As I stated, I agree with the "free will to gamble" viewpoint. But the
reality is we are not just going to eliminate the social servies that exist
and that are required to support the laundry list of problems that will
arise. These problems have been studies and documented.
Sovereign nation is all well and good but there are treaties in place
between nations. I am no legal scholar but if those treaties, agreed to by
both nations, state there are laws regarding Indian gaming, what you are
suggesting is for the Senecas, as a sovereign nation who signed a treaty,
to break those laws and have complete disregard to the terms of a treaty.
I thought of this example last night in response to the claim that the
money is already being gambled at other casinos, so why not keep it in
Buffalo. Say there's one Tim Horton's. It's in Niagara Falls. You have
the free will to go there and drink coffee. Tim Hortons says, "Hey, we
could make more money if we open a shop in Buffalo." So now there are two
Tim Horton's. They now have twice the operating expenses. Don't you think
they expect to make twice the profits? Where do you think those new
profits are going to come from? Maybe we can start giving land back the
Senecas (hell, why not just give them all of WNY, the old Buffalo Creek
reservation, correct?), and they can build a casino on every corner.
Just remember: As George Carlin said, "Think of how stupid the average
person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
Rocco Russo
15 Jul 2008, 09:07
Typo. Studied and documented. And as I also said, I hate the social
"safety net" more than anyone. But I don't have a plan for eliminating it.
So you feel free to watch the need for and cost of those services to
increase. Someone around here is going to pay for them. It won't be me, I
can guarantee you that. I'll just be another highly educated young person
who came back home after college only to move away.
Also, as the article states, the SNSA defines what "sovereign" land may be
used for gaming. I may be mistaken but I thought the Senecas had other
land where they could legally operating gaming, as approved by the NIGC.
If you have issues with the laws and treaties between America and Indians,
go to court and get it changed.
WNYMind
15 Jul 2008, 10:47
How do all the anti-casino kooks explain NF Canada anyway. They have two
casinos there, they have a vibrant business community around the casinos,
they are not plauged with poverty and crime, and everyone in southern
Ontario (nor WNY) is not a chronic gambler. The anti-casino group dares us
to go to NF and see what the casinos have created. I've been there, on both
sides of the border, and don't see the plauge they predict. Even on the US
side, things are looking up, and some new development is taking place for
the first time in decades.
The only real differene between Canada and the US is that there are very
few private foundations like the Wendt Foundation in Canada. Canada does
not have a bunch of tax exempt lobbying groups in their country that use
their money to block development, disenfranchise communities, and keep
people poor. They also have a public input process that guides development
there, and the people supported the casino development in Canada because
they knew it was beneficial to the community, and it has turned out to pay
dividends (unlike the Wendt Foundation after its portfollio was raided by
the trustees for political purposes).
The fact that NF Canada exists and is a shining success story, completely
destroys the anti-casino groups (i.e. the three Wendt Trustees) argument.
And, yes, the NF success story is so great that there are also casinos in
nearby Winsor Canada, just across the border from Detroit, where they have
three Casinos.
So, Kresse, Lunt and Day lose on that point as well.
Rocco Russo
15 Jul 2008, 11:06
My only question regarding NF, Canada would be who the majority of casino
patrons are. To me, NF, Canada has been much more of a tourist destination
than NF, USA. The attractions, nightlife, etc. were there long before the
casino. I'm not saying the casino has hurt the area, I'm just not sure how
to quantify how much it has helped. When I was 19 and there were no
casinos there, Clifton Hill was still pretty popular. I haven't been to
either NF, Canada or NF, USA in some time, so I may be wrong as to the
exact situation of development and such in each.
I just think you're opinion is too strongly based on what the Wendt
Foundation has, or hasn't done. I for one had never even heard of the
Wendt Foundation before reading these comments. I feel you're so focused
on other people's opinions that you're failing to discuss things with
reason, logic, and common sense.
Lloyd A. Marshall, Jr.
15 Jul 2008, 20:50
Rocco says to WNYMind: "I feel you're so focused on other people's opinions
that you're failing to discuss things with reason, logic, and common
sense."
I believe that we have been using common sense in stating the case that
whether a casino is built or not, or whether people choose to partake of
their wares or not, is based on the marketplace... on free will... on
supply vs. demand.
The likes of Joel Rose, however, don't use common sense; they just want to
push their pointy-headed ideas upon the rest of us without regard for
others' rights.
Luis Clay
16 Jul 2008, 06:38
In his note above, WNYMind says, "How do all the anti-casino kooks explain
NF Canada anyway."
Oh dear, delusional WNYMInd really does not know all that much about this
sorry gaming business after all.
1) Casinos in NF are owned by the Government of the Canadians, not the
indians. The profits of the casinos (not a percentage, all of them) are
invested into the community instead of being syphoned off elsewhere. (Bit
like the arrangements regarding Bingo in Buffalo, WNYMind.)
2) The customers of NF casinos are TOURISTS. That means the gambling there
is an EXPORT business. So the tourists come, drop their money and leave
again. Whatever problems they may develop from being broke they take back
with them to somewhere else. (In fact they can't bring them back to NF
because they can't afford to get there.)
So you see WNYMind, NF works because the government is acting in the best
interest of its people. Something that governments in the US at many levels
are failing to do these days.
It's delusional to think that the Buffalo Creek Casino may be part of an
export strategy. Why would tourists visit Buffalo for the casino when there
are already casinos everywhere else? The "me too" tourist export strategy
just lack imagination in a very big way.
It's delusional to think that the Senecas are building the Casinos for the
benefit of the community in Buffalo. A billion dollar business is going to
spend $35mm on jobs in Buffalo. This kook is not impressed. Obviously the
profits of the Seneca casinos are not visible in NF and they certainly are
not visible in Salamanca so the money goes elsewhere, Albany, Florida and
the private estates of the Seneca elites.
Politicians love casinos because they hate to use the word taxes and they
hate managing budgets downwards. In fact casinos are taxes on the addicted
offering very little product aside from shiny lights and false hopes.
I marvel at the amount of time WNYMind and Lloyd Marshall spend on these
delusions. Another one is the investigation of the Wendt Foundation. Here
is WNYMind, whose real identity is of no importance to him, arguing for the
investigation of a foundation under a tax code promulgated by government
whose property laws he does not agree with.
Delusional but brilliant, really, have you been sent here explicitly to
entertain us?
Luis Clay
16 Jul 2008, 06:43
Lloyd A Marshall, Jr. above loves to go around "owning" people... people
get owned apparently if they don't respond word for word to his drivel.
Joel Rose has been owned and Jamie Moses might be.
What is this concept of ownership, exactly? Does it mean that you can do
exactly as you please with the people you own? Can you explain this to us,
Lloyd?
Rocco Russo
16 Jul 2008, 10:13
Mr. Rose's right to object to a casino is equal to your right to support
one. However, from your statements and WNYmind's, I do not feel that you
are able to grasp the full pros and cons of this issue. You have
simplified it into a "marketplace" decision, "supply vs. demand", and "free
will". All concepts are all well and good, but again you have solely
focused on the pros of those ideas and fail to recognize or acknowlege the
cons when applied to the unique issue that is Indian gaming in this
country. You continue to ignore what is fact. Read Donn Esmonde's
editorial in today's Buffalo News. Perhaps then you can continue your case
as to why a downtown Buffalo casino is a good idea and how it can benefit
our community. I'll say it again: the research has been done. I emplore
you to prove it and me wrong. I will then gladly get on the casino
bandwagon.
Note: My $35M "job creation" statement, as compared to the millions more
the Senecas will make, was part of his article. This is common sense.
I've barely followed this debacle and in 2 minutes anyone with half a brain
could figure it out and see through the fluff.
Rocco Russo
16 Jul 2008, 10:36
I have an idea: Let's open up a crack house. Even though it's illegal,
Lloyd and WNYmind don't really have any regard for the actual law. We'll
let the marketplace, supply and demand, and free will decide what happens.
We'll completely ignore any possible cons associated with crack addiction.
Because, hey, no one's holding a gun to my head to smoke crack, right? But
you won't mind when some crack head breaks into your house, rapes your
wife, and steals the jewelry. Because you're all about a person's
"freedoms". Seeing that we're ignoring the laws and everything you'll be
in full support of the idea.
WNYMind
16 Jul 2008, 10:41
Tourists, is that what you call people from WNY who drive 15 minutes to NF
Canada. Get real. The NF USA Casino already does two things. It captures
some of that money that was subsidizing growth in NF Canada and
redistributes it in NY State and WNY in the form of jobs and redistribution
to the city and state. It also attracts tourists from outside the region
because with four casinos in the region (2 on each side of the border) we
now have an agglomoration.
Now the Seneca want to build the fifth casino in the region and put it in
Buffalo. This would actually make the city more of a tourist draw. And, it
brings 1000 $35K jobs to the city (1/2 guaranteed to city residents) as
well as $8 million to he city a year. It is actually the best deal a city
ever got from a casino in US history (look it up, the revenue sharing and
job package is a model for how to do it).
Of course, I have no quams with the government legalizing casinos
everywhere in WNY. Let's put it on the ballot and let the people decide.
You can now go chase your tail. I haven't seen the Wendt Foundation's paid
baboon, Joel Rose, dare to post lately. I guess he is off somewhere
harassing the Seneca. From the posts on the Buffalo News and elsewhere, he
seems to be the most hated man in Buffalo now. But, for $2 million in legal
fees he probably is laughing his way to the bank, or the casino buffet.
Thanks again to Kresse, Lunt, and Day for mismanaging the Wendt portfolio.
I am sure some poor people in WNY are suffering and hungry due to their
selfish lobbying efforts. I know they must feel good about themselves.
Rocco Russo
16 Jul 2008, 12:19
If you're poor, suffering, and hungry, get a job.
You're still missing the point WNYMind. Where do you think the millions
that the Senecas expect to make annually off a Buffalo casino will come
from? Do you really think they want to steal their own business from NF
and Allegheny, while incurring increased operating costs ($35M for those
1000 jobs, remember)? No. They know full well where that new money will
come from. Local residents who don't already go to the other casinos.
Sure, Buffalo might draw some tourists. But the majority of the people who
will be giving their money to the Senecas will be locals. Do the research.
It's been studied and documented. I keep saying it, you keep choosing to
ignore it. I'd love to see more people come visit Buffalo. But not to
spend their weekend in a casino that pays no taxes. Sure, in 10 years they
might be able to go across the street and buy a lure or two at Bass Pro.
Otherwise they're staying at the casino hotel, eating there, gambling
there, and probably even shopping there. (They could go to Main Place
Mall. No, really.) And along with the local residents throwing money away
(yes, by free will), come the social problems. Social problems that aren't
my job to fix, but I'll be paying for through your beloved social services
for the poor and suffering. Is city hall going to u |
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