Part 4 of the secretly recorded phone conversation in August 2017 between Toni Zarattini and Emiliano Salinas.
Toni Zarattini [TZ] [has been explaining to Emiliano how he discovered the branding and blackmail scheme of DOS and that Keith was sleeping with his students. Toni continued telling Salinas on the phone.]
[TZ] I thought of two people I wanted to talk with because I wanted them to know what I learned, what I investigated. This was Gerardo Ayala, dude, because he is my friend and brother; because, when I was married to my ex-wife, and she was making me a puss, he and [his wife] Ana [Risoul] came to me and told me things; they were probably going to get into trouble because I was in a relationship with my wife, but they told me and it was definitely worth it, dude, because they could not do much, but they tried, man, and, after some time, I realized it had been their good intentions. So I went to Gerardo Ayala and said, ‘Dude, this is happening. Open your eyes. Check the information; search for information. I do not know what will happen to Ana, dude, because Ana is very into it and surely there will be a problem, [she might get branded, give collateral, have sex with Keith ] but I think you have to open your eyes because this is not cool dude. It’s not cool, not just because they’re going to hurt you man; it’s just not cool.’
Shit, you know, why I am so pissed off, Emiliano? I dedicated 20 hours a week to this, 20 hours to help students, to work in the [ESP] center, to teach Ethos, to put out fires, a whole lot of things and then they come out with this shit, the group of [DOS] women and Keith [having sex with a lot of his students]. Keith doing that kind of thing, it pisses you off, man! It’s like a big disappointment and then it coincides with Jimena’s ‘shut up and do not ask anymore, do not make a fuss about it, it’s your issues’ and all this, man, then, after talking with Gerardo Ayala, he told me ‘stop talking about this to people.’ I said, ‘ok, dude, it’s okay. I’m not going to talk to people anymore.’ I think the next day, this was Friday, the next day suddenly in the morning – 1, 2, 3 – I got kicked out of almost all the chat [rooms]— Are you there?
TZ: They took me out of all the chats. They took me out of staff [removed him from] Ethos, of all the committees, up to the telegram that I do not use the telegram. I do not use that thing. I only use Whatsap. From all sides, they took me out, and then Omar Boone writes me, ‘Toni, we do not know which side you are on, man. That’s why we took you out of the chats.’
Fuck, and after that Marial came back from a trip and at the airport I told her, ‘Did you see they took me out of the chats.?’ She said. ‘Well, me too.’ I said, ‘what?’ I asked her, “Did someone call you or something?” She said nothing.
Dude, you have to understand something, Emiliano, you surely pay for it and surely you will pay much more now that you have your kids; you are going to pay more but I paid $100,000 pesos a month [$5075 US] for [his children to attend] Rainbow [Cultural Garden]. 100,000 pesos a month, dude. Few people do that. Few people believe in a system like this. Carola [Garza, the head of Rainbow Cultural Garden in Monterrey] did not even have the decency to talk to Marial, to ask anything, or to say anything [before kicking their children out]. The Rainbow group, the Rainbow moms,, I mean, she didn’t even ask her. Nobody even asked me if we were thinking of getting out or leaving [NXIVM]. [By them asking] ‘What are you doing? [They said] nothing, dude, you are an outsider dude, like a criminal.
Well, yes, dude, three hours later, I wrote a goodbye message and [wrote] ‘I’m leaving.’ I do not remember what I put in the message and obviously after that 40 or 50 people from inside the organization called me and asked me, ‘Why did you leave? What is happening? Why did they kick you out of the chats? Why do you want to leave?’ Well, what do you want me to tell them Emiliano? Not to tell them anything, dude? What should I do there?
Emiliano Salinas [ES]: No, I understand you. I obviously hear you from your perspective and of course I understand that I do not think you’re crazy Guajajara, I do not think that one day you went crazy, so I’m interested to know how that process was for you because surely from your perspective and from what you have lived and the assumptions that you have, of course, you are right, and surely I would have done the same from your place.
TZ: Yes ok, well yes and you know what, Emiliano? I understand that my actions have caused economic damage [to NXIVM] and caused other people to make the decision to leave. I understand this, but after I [left, DOS slave], Paloma left, and you spoke to Paloma – and are you there?–
ES: Yes. Yes
TZ: I talked with Paloma and well, because Paloma has her version, right? But also, it’s not fair that they lied to her. She is sure that Jimena lied to her about certain things and well, dude, now she’s branded, and she will be branded for life, dude. And, so, there is nothing left, dude, it’s like this, it’s gross. You don’t even want to say, ‘Hey, yes, I left because I decided this did not go with my values.’ Damn, the truth, it hurts a lot. It has hurt a lot and I understand this has caused damage to you and I would like to stop the problem, that’s the truth.