The one big difference between L. Ron Hubbard and Keith Alan Raniere

In an earlier post Frank Report looked at the similarity in philosophies about handling enemies of L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, and Keith Alan Raniere, founder of Nxivm.
The principle difference between the two men’s philosophies in handling enemies it seems is that while Hubbard was decidedly in favor of attacking enemies of Scientology who attack the group, Raniere was was in favor of not only attacking those who attack Nxivm but to attack those who did not and were not going to attack Nxivm – but merely wanted to leave him quietly.
It caught up with old Vanguard and is perhaps the main reason why he is likely to die in prison and Nxivm not likely to survive him.
On the other hand, Hubbard has passed on and Scientology lives on.
While there is much similarity in their methods of attack, even if they don’t agree on provocation, there is a one big dissimilarity between Hubbard and Raniere.
In the words of one who was both a onetime Scientologist and also took a few Nxivm courses, here are some similarities between Scientology and Nxivm – and the One Big Difference.
Keith Raniere borrowed mightily from L. Ron Hubbard and sued anyone who disclosed his secret teachings. Too bad Scientologists did not sue Raniere – they might have stopped the rascal from perverting their teachings into the deadly cult that Nxivm became.

By a Former Student of Both

“When I took the 16-day intensive of Nxivm, I enjoyed it. Even though I knew Keith had stolen things from Ron Hubbard, I absolutely loved what he did with it. I got a lot of good things out of it, Just like in Scientology, there was some really great, great things, basic profound truth and helpful things that really did help people. Yet the leader Raniere got corrupted and so maybe it’s absolute power which corrupts absolutely. I don’t know.

“Among the things I noticed that he took from Scientology were not only words like parasite and suppressive, but another word is ‘intensives’. When a Scientologist buys a block of hours of private counseling, they call that an intensive. Asking questions is also the method of counseling employed during Scientology ‘intensives.’  Nxivm uses that same word for almost the same thing.
” As for philosophical similarities, among many is the point about not being a victim. This is part of Ron Hubbard’s philosophy and he helps people with his counseling procedures to realize that there are no ultimate victims and that if you are a victim, you have a primary part in causing it to be brought upon yourself. Hubbard gets to people’s victimhood by finding out what they did to  ‘pull that in’.
“It’s just one more thing that Keith lifted from Scientology.
“’Counter survival’ and ‘pro survival’ are major concepts in Scientology. Ethics is the subject used to punish.   The more I study Keith, the more I see the majority, not all, but most all, is lifted from L. Ron Hubbard.  Whereas the methods of NLP and hypnotism are not what’s taught in Scientology, but that’s what is done to them.
“In the end, I realize that Keith Rainiere had not only taken up the technology of Ron Hubbard and used it to  further his own means of technology, but he also took up the litigation procedures that Ron Hubbard recommended and with Raniere some of them were even worse than Scientology which is hard to believe.
“However it would be nice if you differentiated one thing. Ron Hubbard was never in the slightest way accused of sexual misbehavior or misbehavior with minors and God knows he had thousands of minors around him for decades working directly with him and there was never even one accusation, nor were there accusations of extramarital affair’s and so on and so forth.
“So in that regard Keith Raniere and L. Ron Hubbard are very different.”



L . Ron Hubbard with second wife and baby.
Keith Raniere with harem member Mariana Fernandez and baby.

Perhaps, yet another difference is that Hubbard seems to have created his own material and Raniere seems to have stolen it from Hubbard.



Yeah, but could Hubbard play the piano?
Hey let me out of here. I am the ultimate victim!

[Editor’s Note to Raniere’s lawyers: Both of the last two photos are not authentic photos but were photoshopped by Frank Report.]

About the author

Frank Parlato


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  • Asking questions is what happens in a psychotherapy session, too. It’s not unique to Scientology or NXIVM.

    “Basic profound truths that help people” – are available for free, just about anywhere, without any trappings or requirements. They, too, are not exclusive to Scientology or NXIVM.

    Scientology also employs thought-stopping techniques that prevent adherents from critical thought, and they are asked with undue influence to agree to many things without informed consent. People are trained to attribute positive things that happen to them to the cult, and negative things to themselves — and foremost, to not question the efficacy of the ‘tech’ because they will only shoulder the blame.

    Why pick raisins out of turds?

    BTW, Hubbard *did* have sexual improprieties, including bigamy, which are well-documented.

  • The psychologically healing precept of taking personal responsibility for one’s choices can be very freeing and empowering; however, both Scientology and NXIVM exaggerate and pervert this idea so that their victims are NEVER permitted to think of themselves as victims under ANY circumstances.

    Thus, the idea that “there are no victims” becomes a mental gag on their intended victims.

    It also perpetuates a false delusion that one is always in control, even as their victims are slowly losing all control of their lives, fortunes or finances, relationship, career, even sexual identity choices.

    IDK if L. Ron Hubbard was as perverse, spiteful or malignant as KAR and Nancy Salzman are but Hubbard was, at least, far more original and, perhaps, honest or less hypocritical judging by his teachings and legacy.

    • THERE ARE NOOOOO VICTIMS!!!!! (with the exception of Keith)

      It was positioned this way from the first module. One of the first red flags I noticed was this – We’ve got the smartest guy in the world, yet he isn’t smart enough to figure out how not to be the only victim on the planet? It was everyone’s fault except Keith’s.

      CBI? crooked politicians. NHO – Toni’s fault. Bad press? the bad guys are out to get him. Too stupid to not lose 65mill gambling? that pesky E Bronfman manipulating the markets. My ladies keep dumping me and hightailing it? they’re not integrated. I’m ugly and smell of Del Negro’s lovin? my effing parents bornded me this way. I’m a setter but wish I was an outside hitter? again, parent’s fault. I need to wear knee pads. again, Del Negro’s fault.

  • The most important difference between the two is that Raniere is a lazy bump whereas Hubbard was a workoholic, who wrote dozens of science fiction books before he decided to found his own religion in order to make lots of money.

  • Only those who were very close to Raniere and/or “knew too much” were sued. Many people left NXIVM quietly and were not sued. Scientology is well known for following people after they leave, and harassing them at work, with their friends, relatives, etc., causing many of them to not speak up. While being sued and spied upon are two different things, they are similar means to the same end. Namely, chill the conversation. Also, the number of people leaving Scientology compared to NXIVM is much greater, making lawsuits impractical, not affordable, and would draw too much attention to themselves. So Scientology and NXIVM are not all that different in this respect.

  • While Hubbard was never formally charged with pedophilia, he committed bigamy twice with very young women ( and was far from silent about underage sex:, and keep in mind Scientology is a highly secretive organization, so just because there were never any formal charges doesn’t mean Hubbard was innocent.

  • Oh, please.
    The basic techniques are the same.
    Names change, behaviors don’t.
    If I had more time and space I could give you a simplistic rundown of how this works and why, whether it is a religion, political ideology, philosophy, etc it is all the same schlock only the outside packaging is changed.
    To put it in a few words.
    Ir’s a way to take your assets for their own, exert dominance over others and screw as many of whatever sex or age as they wish.
    Got it?

    • Were you asking for Scott’s opinion or did he hear his name? Either way, I agree with both of you.

    • G: “It’s a way to take your assets for their own, exert dominance over others and screw as many of whatever sex or age as they wish.”

      This absolutely hits the nail on the head. Why don’t you give us the simplistic rundown you mention? If so, maybe Frank will make it a feature article which I’m sure would be well worth reading – unlike the contrived drivel from Pea Onyu (who, in my opinion is not real – just a smirking pot stirrer).

      Another poster reminded us, and I concur: “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” As soon as KAR got access to the Bronfman money, his true colors came into full bloom. No more Consumers Buyline promotional spots about major appliances*; not more ugly sweaters and bowl haircuts, no more ridicule. He the became the VANGUARD, i.e., greedy, lazy, cruel, perverted Keith on steroids.

      *BTW, do you think KAR ever researched and purchased a major appliance in his life? What idealistic, thoughtful guru gets his start through a failed get-rich-quick MLM scam?

  • I’d like to ask “regular” expians who were never high-profile or coaches etc…what pressures, if any, did NXIVM put on you when they learned you were leaving?

  • Raniere might have been stopped from perverting the teachings of Scientology into a deadly cult? Uh… yeah… interesting way of putting it…

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